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Old 09-15-2012, 02:37 AM   #21
Kithara
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Feb 2010
Florida
Posts: 41
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Bummer, I'm going to need to order some amylase now.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:15 AM   #22
muench1
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Jan 2012
Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 142
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You don't have the buy enzymes, you can just mash with something that has enzymes like sweet potato, banana, some other things have been tried with varying success if you look around.
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:48 AM   #23
igliashon
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Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
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I've tried sweet potato and banana both and never gotten more than negligible conversion. Even with enzyme formula I've never got more than 45% efficiency, but I've also never properly crushed my grains. I'm going to try again soon now that I have a grain mill.

 
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:46 AM   #24
muench1
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Jan 2012
Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igliashon View Post
I've tried sweet potato and banana both and never gotten more than negligible conversion. Even with enzyme formula I've never got more than 45% efficiency, but I've also never properly crushed my grains. I'm going to try again soon now that I have a grain mill.
I thought you'd been using unmalted grains mostly. Are these malted or unmalted grains you're attempting to convert? If they're malted, what method are you using?
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Primary: Fish Face IPA
Secondary: Perry, Plum Wine, Peach Wine, Mystery White Blend Wine
Bottled/Kegged: GF Graff, Accidentily Imperial Stout, Apricot Wine, Cider, All-Juice Apple Wine, All-Juice Strong Cider, Sparkling Plum Wine, Experimental Honey Steam
Coming soon:, Blackberry Wine, GF Pale, GF Braggot

 
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:28 PM   #25
igliashon
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Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
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Unmalted, but thoroughly gelatinized. I've compared efficiencies between exogenous enzymes vs. mashing with banana and sweet potato, keeping grain-type, crush, and mash time relatively constant (I used a blend of brown and wild rice and corn as the bit to be converted). In trial one, I did a 3-gallon batch, and used 1 lb 4 oz of sweet potato, 1 lb 6 oz of banana, 8 oz of rice blend and 8 oz of flaked corn, for a total of 3 lbs 10 oz of grist. The corn was ground at the LHBS, the rice blend ground at home in a blender. The rice and corn I gelatinized by boiling for 20 minutes. I then cooled, added additional water, and the banana/sweet potato blend, and step-mashed at 90, 125, and 153, using my brew kettle as a mash tun and using my oven on "warm" to keep my temps constant. After a saccharification period of 2 hours, I slowly brought to boil to "mash out". I poured into a second kettle through my BIAB bag as a filter, removed the grains, and then tasted the wort. It was starchy and only very slightly sweet. All told I got a total gravity contribution of 1.004 from this method.

Trial 2 I used the same rice and corn blend, but used almost three pounds of it (1 lb 12 oz of rice blend, 1 lb of corn), plus 2 lbs of boiled and pureed carrots. This I did a single-step infusion mash using 1 tsp of amylase enzyme blend (EC Kraus "Diatase"), again kept in the oven to keep temps around 152 degrees, again strained through my BIAB. The wort was much sweeter, with a total gravity contribution of 1.016. The carrots, I later discovered, are a very poor source of convertible starch, having approximately 1.3 ounces of starch per pound of carrots! So here, I really only had about 2 lbs 14 oz of grist contributing convertible starch. So, I concluded that trying to get conversion via bananas and sweet potato is significantly less effective than using EC Kraus "Diatase".

 
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:42 PM   #26
thanantos
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Apr 2011
, MICHIGAN
Posts: 283
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What are their prices like for grain? Just looking for general idea.

 
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:13 PM   #27
igliashon
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Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
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Their prices are good, less than $3/pound, but unless you want to order a lot (like 25 pounds or more), the shipping makes it more like $5-$6 a pound. I'm probably gonna give it a go after I've used up all my unmalted grains, just to see if malted grains have a superior taste in any way or give better efficiency with this enzyme mix beljica sent me.

 
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:53 PM   #28
thanantos
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Apr 2011
, MICHIGAN
Posts: 283
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Thanks igliashon. Which brings up the question "where are you getting your unmalted grains from?"

Especially since the other discussion is regarding those.

 
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:27 PM   #29
igliashon
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Feb 2012
Oakland, CA
Posts: 936
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I get mine from local health food stores. Was going to Whole Foods but found a local health food store that has superior prices AND selection. I can get all manner of crazy stuff--sprouted rice, sprouted quinoa, flaked amaranth, flaked quinoa, flaked oats, heirloom popcorn, puffed millet, puffed quinoa, puffed corn, puffed rice, any variety of rice imaginable in 5-lb bags, buckwheat, millet, three colors of quinoa...it's pretty awesome, now I just gotta figure out how to use them! Prices range from $0.70/pound for red or purple rice to about $7/pound for heirloom black quinoa. Most stuff is in the $1-$3/pound range.

 
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:19 AM   #30
ChasidicCalvinist
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Feb 2012
Hookstown, PA
Posts: 350
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What is the name of the store??
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