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Old 08-15-2013, 09:20 AM   #571
MattHollingsworth
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Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
has anyone tried doing a hop forward beer with no boil hops?
Yup. I was inspired by Chad Yacobson. In an interview he mentioned making a beer (hop savant, I think, which I can't get here and haven't tried) with hops added only after the boil. I used a similar amount of hops in what I called a Zero IBU Brett Trois Imperial IPA.

It's intended to be for a party on September 21st, so will report back later on the story at the end point. At the moment, it tastes nice. It *is* bitter despite using no boil hops. It's a different kind of bitter character, though, with perhaps less depth to it and certainly less harsh. Hop amounts are a touch strange as I used what I had on hand and ran out of Citra.

Recipe is like so:

26 liter batch.

7.00 kg Pale Malt
1.50 kg Wheat, Flaked
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked
160.00 g Nelson Sauvin-2012-whole[12.30 %] - Aroma
135.00 g Chinook-2012-pellets[12.40 %] - Aroma
67.00 g Citra-2012-whole[15.00 %] - Aroma
45.00 g Citra-2012-pellets [14.20 %] - Aroma
Brettanomyces Bruxellensis-White Labs
Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois (at larger amount than Brett Brux)

Brewed on 6-22, last tasted on 7-23, at which point the SG was 1.011.

OG 1.075.
SG 1.011 (85% attenuation)

8.5% abv

At the point it's at right now, I liked the normal Brett Trois IPA I made some months back better, but will see how it develops over the next 6 weeks or so. I might not dry hop it, I'll see. If I do, I will dry hop it just before kegging. We might run this through a Randall at the party. Time will tell. Might not so we can taste the fruitiness from the Brett as well.

Also recently bottled a rye strong ale that used Brett Trois and Galaxy hops. That one tasted a little thin at bottling and I was sort of wondering if it would have been better if I had used just normal Sacch yeast. But, after only a week in the bottle, it's amazing. I love it.


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Old 08-15-2013, 04:53 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattHollingsworth View Post
Yup. I was inspired by Chad Yacobson. In an interview he mentioned making a beer (hop savant, I think, which I can't get here and haven't tried) with hops added only after the boil. I used a similar amount of hops in what I called a Zero IBU Brett Trois Imperial IPA.

It's intended to be for a party on September 21st, so will report back later on the story at the end point. At the moment, it tastes nice. It *is* bitter despite using no boil hops. It's a different kind of bitter character, though, with perhaps less depth to it and certainly less harsh. Hop amounts are a touch strange as I used what I had on hand and ran out of Citra.

Recipe is like so:

26 liter batch.

7.00 kg Pale Malt
1.50 kg Wheat, Flaked
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked
160.00 g Nelson Sauvin-2012-whole[12.30 %] - Aroma
135.00 g Chinook-2012-pellets[12.40 %] - Aroma
67.00 g Citra-2012-whole[15.00 %] - Aroma
45.00 g Citra-2012-pellets [14.20 %] - Aroma
Brettanomyces Bruxellensis-White Labs
Brettanomyces Bruxellensis Trois (at larger amount than Brett Brux)

Brewed on 6-22, last tasted on 7-23, at which point the SG was 1.011.

OG 1.075.
SG 1.011 (85% attenuation)

8.5% abv

At the point it's at right now, I liked the normal Brett Trois IPA I made some months back better, but will see how it develops over the next 6 weeks or so. I might not dry hop it, I'll see. If I do, I will dry hop it just before kegging. We might run this through a Randall at the party. Time will tell. Might not so we can taste the fruitiness from the Brett as well.

Also recently bottled a rye strong ale that used Brett Trois and Galaxy hops. That one tasted a little thin at bottling and I was sort of wondering if it would have been better if I had used just normal Sacch yeast. But, after only a week in the bottle, it's amazing. I love it.
his BN interview and discussion of Hop Savant is what prompted me to ask the question.

do you not like the beer as much (at this point) because of the lack of bitterness or for other reasons? I could see it being a concern with a IIPA which needs a good firm bitterness IMO but I'm considering trying it out with an X(trois)PA


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Old 08-16-2013, 07:46 AM   #573
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in a conversation with the only other local brewer i know who uses this brett strain he commented that he does not oxygenate the wort, only oxygenates the huge starter very well, and that this strategy brings out the fruitier side of this strain. i'm just preparing for my second trois brew, my first was a huge success. it was a super fruity IPA, and i oxygenated the the wort as i would for sacc. so i'm curious what everyone else does, or if anyone has done a side-by-side experiment with and without O2. i couldn't find anything on my attempts to search this thread but maybe i missed it? if so please direct me there! and please don't reply if you are going to say that oxygenation and brett gives super sour acetic whatever, since it clearly doesn't with brett as the primary fermenter. thanks!
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnerstick
in a conversation with the only other local brewer i know who uses this brett strain he commented that he does not oxygenate the wort, only oxygenates the huge starter very well, and that this strategy brings out the fruitier side of this strain. i'm just preparing for my second trois brew, my first was a huge success. it was a super fruity IPA, and i oxygenated the the wort as i would for sacc. so i'm curious what everyone else does, or if anyone has done a side-by-side experiment with and without O2. i couldn't find anything on my attempts to search this thread but maybe i missed it? if so please direct me there! and please don't reply if you are going to say that oxygenation and brett gives super sour acetic whatever, since it clearly doesn't with brett as the primary fermenter. thanks!
I've been following this thread since day 1 and I don't think anyone has done any side by sides with/without oxygenation. It would be a worthwhile experiment, if you ask me.
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:23 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
his BN interview and discussion of Hop Savant is what prompted me to ask the question.

do you not like the beer as much (at this point) because of the lack of bitterness or for other reasons? I could see it being a concern with a IIPA which needs a good firm bitterness IMO but I'm considering trying it out with an X(trois)PA
Naw, it's not the bitterness. I think if I were to do this again, I would ONLY use Brett Trois. I think the mixed culture somewhat diluted the strong fruity character that most people love from Trois. I haven't used Brett Brux on its own to see what impact it had here, though, so can't say for sure.

I think it's worth trying with no boil hops. I will report back in this thread the next time I taste this beer so I can take some better notes.

In mid September, I will be brewing a Saison that I will split into 4 fermenters and will pitch the four Brett strains that White Labs has so that I can see what character each gives for 100% Brett beer so that I can learn their character.
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #576
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I've been following this thread since day 1 and I don't think anyone has done any side by sides with/without oxygenation. It would be a worthwhile experiment, if you ask me.
I've used it a few times and while I haven't done any real comparisons, with the latest batch the starter was pretty acetic-sour.

The other times I've made starters in three steps, with a few days between each step, all on the stir plate. Those starters had a slight lemony tartness that was nice and not overblown. With those beers, I used NO oxygen at all and barely shook the fermenter. The resulting beers had no acetic character at all.

With this batch, I made the starter before I went on vacation. I made it maybe 5 or 6 days before going on vacation, left on the stirplate and did two steps. Then when we left, I turned off the stirplate and left it around 72 F while we were gone for 12 days. When I returned there was a massive pellicle and it smelled sour but nice. I left it sit at that same temp for another ten days or something, then chilled, decanted and made a fresh starter to pitch on it. That was left on the stirplate at that same temp, chilled a few days ahead of time and decanted before pitching. I drank a decent amount of that starter. It was acetic. Much more than with other batches. It tasted nice, but the acetic character was actually pretty strong.

Pitched that into another Brett Trois IPA last weekend and will see how the actual beer fares. With that beer I used no oxygen again and barely shook the fermenter, so not much in the way of air in there. I will report back on that later as well to see if this starter resulted in a more acetic beer, but I suspect it will not, that it will end up like the other beers I've made with this yeast.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:59 AM   #577
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Tasted my Belgian blonde after 6 days of conditioning, had some carbonation! Nice subtle tropical aroma, with noble hop character, taste followed nose, with a bit of acetic tartness, and a slight alcohol presence, body was medium, with a very balanced finish. A bit more acetic and boozy than I would like. Aroma, mouth feel, hop presence and yeast character spot on!
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:12 PM   #578
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Just went to my LHBS and they said that this strain isn't currently available from White Labs. How can I get some? I'm a little leery of ordering some from an online shop if it's true that White Labs isn't making it available and it might just be old stock.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:33 AM   #579
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Delete post, my phone screwed up, sorry.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:36 AM   #580
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I was under the impression it is year round now, when I got mine, just called my lhbs, and they go it in less than a week later. I can't say for sure, but if you do not have a good relationship there, they might be feeding you a line of BS. Several online sites have special packaging, but it need to ship 2 day air, and costs a lot. Try morebeer.com


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