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Old 08-19-2012, 01:39 AM   #121
berebrando
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Wow, I can't believe this is the first time I've come across this thread! I have been researching all-brett fermentations for a while and finally took the plunge today. I've listened to the BN show with CY, reviewed his slide show, listened to every BN show with wild/lambic/sour brewers, and reviewed CY's Brett Project website (i can understand a little bit of it). Here's what I have:

Starter 1: moderately aerated, 2L starter with 2 vials of WLP 644
Starter 2: moderately aerated, 2L starter with 1 vial of each of WLP 650 and WLP 653 (i wanted two vials of 650, but the LHBS was out)

I was aiming for a lager-like starter size, hence the 2 vials and the 2L, using the yeast calc website, these starters are expected to get me in between the lager and ale pitch rates. But, it looks like the research is showing extraordinary doublings. If I had seen this thread before building my starters, I probably would have used 1 vial each, but oh well. Either way, it will be interesting to see what these pitch rates result in.

I'm brewing an american pale-type (10g batch with 12# maris otter, 6.5#wheat malt, 2# rye malt, 12oz cpils, and 8oz munich, hopped to about 20 ibu with chinook & citra. it will be hoppy, but not as hoppy as my normal pale) beer a week from tomorrow and I will try to remember to return with results. (This is a fantastic post and an amazingly fascinating experiment!)



 
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:02 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker View Post
After racking my first batch onto fruit in secondary, I refilled my vial with yeast for future use. I also set aside the remaining slurry, and immediately brewed a porter that same day...
This morning I decided to draw a sample of my 100% Brett Trois porter brewed 7/15. After only 3 days, I had racked it to a keg. The first week, I vented it every day or two. Then I forgot about it. Today I vented it about 5 or 6 times, each time stopping as foam and beer would start to spray out. Finally decided to just tap it and let the natural carbonation serve it. Filled a wheat beer glass 3/4 full. A lot of pressure in that keg still.

SG = 3.5P from an OG of 12.9P (go ahead and chastise me now for using a refractometer).

Appearance is opaque, dark brown, with cream/tan colored head which lasted despite stirring in attempt to get a foam free gravity reading sample, clinging to sides of glass. Aroma is a bit sour, with dark fruit - prunes or raisons, smells like a sour brown ale, maybe a hint of chocolate aroma. Taste is dark fruit and little coffee, bitterness only as a lingering notion (34 IBU), silky, coating mouthfeel, a minor tart or sourness which with the fruit gives impressions of cherries, no astringency at all. I would not call it a sour beer, but the touch of it which works perfectly. This recipe was a complete hodge podge of leftover malts/grains (9 plus a pils base to be precise), so I'd never plan to exactly re-brew it. However, based on this I'd recommend doing an all bret porter or stout or dubbel. This actually tastes more like a dubbel to me than a porter. Just creating a Wyeast Brett L starter today for a 100% fermentation next weekend. Was going to make a light blond for future blending, but thinking of changing course now.


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Old 08-19-2012, 03:50 AM   #123
berebrando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker View Post
After racking my first batch onto fruit in secondary, I refilled my vial with yeast for future use. I also set aside the remaining slurry, and immediately brewed a porter that same day.
Regarding storage techniques, I seem to recall Chad mentioning that he has had better results with brett stored at room temperature as opposed to refrigeration. Did anyone else get this impression?

I'm interested in this because I sometimes stash yeast slurry in a mason jar if I'm going to use it in the near future. CY implies that storing this slurry at room temperature would be better for the long term viability of the yeast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker View Post
This morning I decided to draw a sample of my 100% Brett Trois porter brewed 7/15. After only 3 days, I had racked it to a keg. The first week, I vented it every day or two. Then I forgot about it. Today I vented it about 5 or 6 times, each time stopping as foam and beer would start to spray out.
Another point I recall from CY's BN interview was that he is seeing brett becoming active again when pressure is applied. I find Quaker's results very interesting - 3 day ferment, then pressurized aging... I wonder if the porter would have dried out further if it weren't subject to the pressure.

 
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Old 08-19-2012, 07:38 AM   #124
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Now that I've brewed 2 all Brett batches, headed for my third, I need to re-listen to that interview with CY. His comments about dark malts and Brett were why I went for the second batch, but I don't recall the pressure fermentation discussion. I definitely need to sample my other soon which was a blond on mangoes and apricots with lacto in secondary.
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Old 08-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #125
berebrando
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About 16 hours in, the trois starter is crazy active. Bubbling like gangbusters and generating a small white krausen. The Brett brux/lambicus (I've heard they are actually the same species?) starter is not showing any signs of life. Maybe the b/l starter will take the 7 to 10 days that has been thrown around for "normal" Brett starters (?), whereas the trois starter will behave more like a sacch.

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This is fun!
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:31 PM   #126
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My trois starter grew exactly like a sacch starter. Therefore I decided to just pitch it at typical ale rate. The mash was a bitch for me with the rye and oats in there. I had to run off rather slow.
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #127
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I also have a Wyeast Brett L on the stir plate now about 18 hours in. Not much happening in sharp contrast to my previous 644 starter which took off like a Belgian or Hefe strain.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #128
berebrando
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About 20 hours in, the brux/lambicus starter has kicked up. The trois starter is still going nuts.

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Looks like they will both be ready to pitch next weekend. In the future, I guess I'll just do a 24 to 48 hour starter with trois.
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Old 08-20-2012, 03:53 PM   #129
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Kegged and dryhopped my 100% trois batch saturday night and harvested the slurry.

Brewed 10gal of 1.052 saison yesterday ~30 IBUs.

5gal pitched with 90ml of trois slurry and a smack pack of 3726 with no starter.
I went with roughly the estimate that mr.malty gave for a repitch of sacch slurry to pitch my brett.

Other 5 gal pitched with a 1.6L starter of WLP585 saison III. Will be bottling this with brett trois dosed bottles, and possibly some other brett strains to see the difference.

10 hours after pitching they both have a pretty vigorous fermentation going.

 
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:16 PM   #130
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berebrando - I also agree with Chad Y's storage of Brett. I have noticed similar results that my tubes of Brett Slurry seem to have a much better viability when stored at room temperature. I was trying to think of why this happens and I guess it makes sense. Brett is just able to use a greater range of compounds for its carbon food source. Hence, why these beers continue to change over time because the Brett is still metabolizing different flavor compounds.



 
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