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Old 05-01-2012, 06:15 PM   #1
Prymal
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Feb 2011
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So I have posted about this beer right before i brewed it. Now 5 weeks later I am a bit disappointed. This beer was by far my best brew day ever. I hit all of the Volume/Temp/Gravity reading, and was done and cleaned up in 5 hours. When I transferred to the keg after 3 weeks of fermentation I was just a little high on my FG EST 1.014. I hit 1.016, no big deal. Anyways it tasted absolutely amazing, I would have personally put it on point with any commercially available DIPA. Now after about 2 weeks in the keg and 5 days on the Dry Hop it is really lacking in every aspect. The beer is incredibly cloudy. The hops are being masked by an overly sweet malt backbone that features some pretty strong nut flavors.

Does anyone have some ideas where this might have gone wrong, or should I just RDWHAHB and let it age some more? Well...I will do that regardless, I just hope someone might have an insight into the really strong nut characteristic and cloudiness.

OG 1.091
Ferm Temp: 62 raised to 72 over 2 weeks
Cold Crash: 40 for 2 days
FG: 1.016

Recipe

12 lbs Brewer's Malt, 2-Row, Premium
3 lbs 8.0 oz Vienna Malt
1 lbs 8.0 oz Victory Malt
1 lbs Crystal 40, 2-Row
8.0 oz Crystal 15, 2-Row
1.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 8 0.3 %

1.00 oz Falconer's Flight 7C's [9.90 %] - First Wort
1.00 oz Warrior [13.70 %] - First Wort
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight 7C's [9.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min
1.00 oz Zythos [10.90 %] - Boil 20.0 min
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight 7C's [9.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.40 %] - Boil 0.0 min
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min

2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

2.00 oz Citra [14.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:27 PM   #2
deggenbe
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too much crystal imho

i would have used around 8oz of crystal total (combined) and halved the victory and Vienna malts

what temp did you mash at and for how long? (err nvm this is an extract)
I think Vienna is supposed to be mashed only. if someone can confirm this.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:30 PM   #3
rvklein
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I think 5 weeks is a pretty short peroid of time for a beer that big.

And that is alot of crystal.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:32 PM   #4
HawksBrewer
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Nuttiness is coming from the 1.5 lbs of victory malt and the sweetness is coming from the 1.5 lbs of crystal malts. Also, as far as hop flavor is concerned you don't have any hop additions between 5-15 minutes which is where hop flavors are predominantly extracted.

Next time you brew this you should:

Reduce victory and crystal malt additions
Increase late boil hop additions. 0 min only increases aroma, not flavor

Cheers.

 
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:47 PM   #5
bobbrews
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Next time, limit crystal in a hoppy beer to 2-6%. And use light crystal. That's my personal preference at least.

Cold crashing usually takes longer than 2 days. The real trick for clearing extra yeast sediment is to avoid agitation. Even if you cold crashed for 7 days, then moved the carboy to another location prior to racking, you would negate all of the benefits you received from cold crashing by agitating the yeast once again. Excess hop oils can also make a beer hazy among other things.

Unfortunately, your hop selection will only add to the perceived sweetness. Citra, Nelson, and Falconers are all very potent melony, fruity, tropical hops. When used late in large amounts, it has the possibility to give an annoying juicy sweetness. You really have to find the right balance with certain hops... especially with a grist comprised of a good deal of sweet, caramely, nutty malts. I say all this because an FG of 1.013 to 1.017 is kind of typical for a DIPA. I personally like 1.010-1.013. But your FG is fine. If you were around 1.019+, well then more of those unfermentable sugars would get in the way of the hops.

I think 3 oz. at flameout is more than adequate. Contrary to popular belief, you still receive flavor and aroma from these additions. It's not always so clear cut to say an addition will lend 100% aroma, or 100% flavor... unless your talking about bitter flavor from bittering or FWH hops.

What was the size of your beginning boil and end batch? Did you use top off water?

 
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:59 PM   #6
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I agree with a bit too much crystal, I don't think a pound is out of place in a IIPA, but 1.5lbs is definitely overdoing it. These beers need to finish very dry. The trend now is to use some sugar to help dry them out, and I think that works very well. I do that in my IIPA and that's how Pliny is made, so you don't have to take my word for it.

I also think the victory malt is a little out of place (along with too much, I stick with half a pound maximum ever in any beer), that's definitely where you're getting the nuttiness. If that's a flavor you're going for, I would go with a nice bready base malt like Maris Otter (or another english pale ale malt) that will add fermentables rather than just flavor.

I really like the hop schedule, but agree that it's probably adding to your perceived sweetness. Also, as an aside, Falconer's is a pretty expensive hop (blend) to be FWHing. Contrary to popular belief, you're just not going to get any flavor or aroma from a FWH. No volatiles survive a 60min boil.

US-05 can be a bitch to clear, and plus you've probably got a fair bit of hops haze. Not a whole lot for it if it hasn't cleared already. If you're dry hopping cold, warm it up- you're not extracting much from the hops at cold temperatures. Give it another week, then chill it down again for another week or two. By then, as much yeast will have dropped out as is going to, and you don't want to wait to enjoy a dIPA. The hop nose is really going to start dropping off if you wait.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:59 PM   #7
Prymal
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Thanks for all of the advice guys. When I built this recipe I pretty much threw the grain bill together out of no where. I didn't think much about what flavor I wanted from the malt. I think it is way to complex to show off the hops like a DIPA should. I will defiantly cut the victory down if not out completely. I'll also cut it to a half lbs of each crystal.

Mashed at 148 for 90 minutes attempting to get as dry of a beer as I could. I learned about using dextrose to dry out the beer more and I think I'll try that as well.

Everyone has their opinion about when to hop a DIPA I actually like using the scheme I did in this case.

After pouring another pint the beer seems a bit more clear, the first pull off the keg probably had most of the dropped out yeast that was left over.

I also agree that my hop choices were not the best. I added the Nelson at the last minute because it was in my freezer. I do feel like there is some melon like flavor sitting behind the nutty malt profile which is making the beer seem more sweet.

Again, thanks for all of the insight.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:23 AM   #8
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+1 on cutting out the Victory...I don't see its' place in a DIPA. That is where the "nuttiness" is coming from. IMO a DIPA grain bill should be really simple.. 2 row, a little bit of crystal, some carapils, and some corn sugar. You want it to showcase your hops rather than something they have to compete with.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:40 PM   #9
Prymal
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The beer turned out an awesome color and the dry hops are really starting to come out now that they have been in for 8 days. The nutty flavor from the victory is still a little overpowering but I actually like it next to the piney simco hop aroma. The residual sweetness from the crystal also might be slightly out of style but it's nowhere near cloying. I can drink 2 or 3 in a night without an issue aside from the 10% alcohol.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunhog View Post
+1 on cutting out the Victory...I don't see its' place in a DIPA. That is where the "nuttiness" is coming from. IMO a DIPA grain bill should be really simple.. 2 row, a little bit of crystal, some carapils, and some corn sugar. You want it to showcase your hops rather than something they have to compete with.
I'll differ here, and say I love a little Victory malt in my IPAs, DIPAs, and APAs. But yeah, that's too much. That said, I otherwise agree with the above. I'd lose the Vienna and replace with more 2 row, then 8 oz victory, 8 oz C40 (or C60), 4 oz carapils and 1 lb corn sugar.
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