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Old 07-21-2012, 05:36 AM   #11
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Default Batch #2

Re-brewed this today with several adjustments to the recipe. I increased the adjuncts to 10% from 6. I changed yeasts from WLP550 to Wyeast 3711. I added a little bit of Cararye, more for a tinge more color than for much flavor. And I upped the hop bill, changing from Noble varieties to NZ.

Much higher efficiency than planned, so my estimated IBUs dropped due to higher gravity in the boil and the fact I intended 15 minutes additions which became 10 minutes. I was planning on 30 IBU in a more session level Saison.

Recipe: SMiY 四麦芽 Saison
Style: 16C-Belgian And French Ale-Saison

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 28.50 l
Wort Volume After Boil: 22.5 l
Actual OG: 13.0 Plato
Expected FG: 2.0 Plato
Expected ABV: 5.9 %
Expected ABW: 4.7 %
Calculated IBU (using Tinseth): 24.4
Expected Color: 5.6 SRM
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF pitching, will rise uncontrolled

Fermentables
Chinese Pilsner Malt 6.00 lb (58.5 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Rye Malt 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Golden Naked Oats (Simpson's) 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German Wheat Malt 1.00 lb (9.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
German CaraRye 0.25 lb (2.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 1.00 lb (9.8 %) 20 minutes remaining in Boil

Hops
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used First Wort Hopped
NZ Nelson Sauvin (10.9 % alpha) 15 g Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End
NZ Nelson Sauvin (10.9 % alpha) 15 g Bagged Pellet Hops used At turn off
NZ Pacific Jade (14.2 % alpha) 10 g Bagged Pellet Hops used At turn off

Other Ingredients
Burton Water Salts 15 g used in 30L of RO water for strike and sparge water
Whirlfloc Tablet 1 in Boil
Wyeast Beer Nutrient Blend 1/2 tsp in Boil

Yeast: Wyeast 3711-French Saison


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Old 07-29-2012, 04:29 AM   #12
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Before the primary fermentation kicked up, I couldn't help myself and dumped the dregs from 3 bottles of DuPont Saison in it. By the next morning it had ramped up to 83 and hit a high of 93 on day 3 with SG of 1.5P. At the end of the week it was down to 0.6P (1.002) if I believe the refractometer conversions. (Go ahead and throw darts at my avoidance of hydrometers) I moved it to a keg with 15g of bagged Nelson Sauvin dry hops and the dregs of an Orval bottle. I doubt the Brett will do much at this point with the low gravity, but that's ok with me. I'm not really an Orval fan, but thought a little funk wouldn't hurt anything. The taste reminds me of my memory of a Muscat wine. It's the color of clover honey, but at only a week into fermentation it's still opaque (can't see my finger through the glass). The silky mouthfeel which was present in the wort has turned to an oddly heavy mouthfeel, yet very dry finish. It was similar in the first batch. It's the oats and the low gravity countering each other. There is a lingering, mild bitterness. Considering my pipeline of full kegs, it'll probably be September before I tap it.


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Old 09-01-2012, 12:38 AM   #13
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Dipped a juice glass into the room temp keg this morning for a sample. If refractometers and conversions can be trusted (no need to tell me otherwise), it's at 0P (maybe believable with the Orval dregs). As noted before, the color is similar to clover honey. The aroma is distinctly white wine-like with a bit of fruit and honey character. Hard to place the fruit, maybe a little lemony. The taste again carries through with white wine flavors, maybe a bit like a Chenin Blanc. At first I think it was over carb'd so there was a tingling acidity, but as the sample sat longer, that disappeared completely. Dry, but it still has a smooth, lightly coating mouthfeel. The Orval funk comes as an aftertaste on the sides of the tongue, along with a bit of harsh bitterness. I think this is the second time I've used Pacific Jade in a blend of late hops, and that might be where it comes from. I put the keg to the fridge, to start serving. I do fear chilling it will cause the harsh bitterness to be more noticeable. This recipe was 29 IBU (Tinseth) or .54 BU/GU. I think I'd drop the bitterness next time, probably eliminating the Pacific Jade from of the 10 minute addition and leaving the rest the same. I won't re-brew again this year. Time to get some autumn/winter beers into the pipeline. But I'll probably pick it up again next year, possibly adding some black pepper and/or coriander to a batch to pep it up. I might play with making a little tea and blend in a glass of this batch to give me an impression of that.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:37 AM   #14
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After a few hours of chilling, poured another sample. Reminds me more of kumquat juice than white wine now, coating mouthfeel, lingering bitterness, and a touch of funk. The Brett seems a little more noticeable with the chilling. The book is closing on this one for the season.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:12 AM   #15
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Brewed up another batch of this today. I loved the last one, but wanted to keep pushing the limits on my grain bill to find the boundary. I increased the adjunct grains further. This batch has 4 lbs pils base with 2 lbs each of the rye, wheat, and Simpson's Golden Naked Oats. I'll use honey in place of sugar since I have a bunch leftover from my 2010 harvest which crystallized.

My gear hasn't shipped back with my household stuff from my house in China yet. So I used the LHBS mill. It's gap was considerably wider and a lot of the oats and rye weren't crushed. Efficiency was a horrid 60%. OG is 1.040 without the honey. I'll add 2 lbs after about 2 weeks (I'll be away on vacation or I'd add it a week in).

I kept the NZ hop schedule as before. I'll lightly dry hop as before with Nelson Sauvin when i add the honey. I pitched WLP 566 Saison II yeast. When it comes time to keg it, I'll either pitch some Orval dregs again or pick up a pure Brett strain.
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Old 05-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #16
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Thought I'd post some updates. I ramped the temp up 2-3 degrees F a day until day 4 when i hit 78. On day 4 I also added 1.4 pounds of honey. Then i ran off to Thailand for a week. When i returned I removed the carboy hester.

4/13 I dry hopped with 15g Nelson Sauvin loose pellets in the carboy. SG was 1.009.

Hydro sample tasting notes. White wine aroma from carboy. Musty honey aroma from sample. Some astringency in the taste which overshadows all else. Still has body, but no slick mouthfeel like earlier batch. Sense the alcohol. Honey probably fermented too hot.

4/16 racked to a keg and pitched WLP644. I have used this Brett as a primary strain 3 times and loved it. This was my first time using it to finish a beer.

5/4 SG 1.007. Brett has done a little, but not much yet gravity wise.

Hydro sample tasting notes. Light musty aroma. White wine aroma gone. Oily/velvety body, but thin and dry finish. Light bitterness lingering. Warming alcohol. Hop flavors aren't identifiable. Definite menthol flavor/sensation - odd. Extremely clear - especially considering the adjunct % involved. No astringency. Seems like a little oak plus orange peel or coriander would round it more and of course carbonation.

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Old 06-23-2013, 12:49 AM   #17
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About to kick this keg of the 3rd iteration. As before, about 6 weeks allows it to meld together. the high alcohol notes disappeared. I ended up hitting it with a half ounce of oak and bitter orange peel. Even after that it seemed to cry out for a fruit accent, I assume due to the Brett Trois as opposed to the more horsey Orval dregs of the prior batch. So I dry hopped it with 50g of Citra. Excellent. I do prefer the DuPont yeast over White Labs Daison II. I will re-brew again later this summer. I want to use their Saison III when it comes out based on OldSock/Mad Fermentationist and others' comments on it.

The increased adjunct percentages did add more earthiness to it. I think that is why the Citra was needed to step it up. I think my next batch will be 15% each. I'll stick with Brett Brux Trois as a finisher. The Citra may become a regular as well. I must credit Anchorage's Love Buzz for the idea.

Really enjoying dialing this in. It's the first time I've made even 3 iterations on a recipe, and I see me continuing to play - even though I would be happy with either of the last two on tap all the time.
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Old 06-23-2013, 03:16 PM   #18
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Thanks for the updates. This sounds like a great beer I'm going to add it to my to-brew list.
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:14 PM   #19
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Brewed a fourth version on Labor Day weekend and I'm proud to say this recipe is dialed to my tastes now. I'm using the mobile app while away from home for a bit, but eventually I'll post this one in the database.

Final iteration is 10% each of the adjuncts: Simpson's Golden Naked Oats, Weyermann Dark Munich, Weyermann Rye malt, home harvested wildflower honey.

Step mash 135-145-165. 15 minutes each on the first two then 30 on the last step. My system is an electric HERMS.

Hops and yeast were the tweaks that nailed it for me. Amounts below we're for a 10 gallon batch which ended up being 11. I had been getting poor efficiency on the new system after returning home from China, so I upped my recipe calcs and ended up with more wort than planned - such a pity. I suspect my efficiency issue is my hard, iron rich well water. Water sample has been submitted to Ward's and I'm on chapter 4 of the Water book. My IBU calcs also assume a 10 minute hot whirlpool with extraction.

OG 1.053

FWH 16 IBU Pacific Jade 13.1% x 20g
15 min 5.6 IBU Pacifica 5.4% x 30g
15 min 13.6 IBU Pacific Jade 13.1% x 30g
Whirlpool 1.9 IBU Pacifica 5.4% x 30g

Chilled to 63F and allowed to free rise in 68-70 degree basement. On day 2 all but the Brett were mid 70s.

I fermented 5 gallons with WLP585 Saison III (1.011 FG), 2.5 gallons with a Wyeast 3711 yeast cake from my neighbor (1.008 FG), 2.5 gallons with WLP566 Saison II starter harvested from prior batch (1.011 FG), and a gallon was pitched with Wyeast 3112 Brett Brux (1.018 FG) as a starter to distribute in the others at kegging.

I tasted then after 2 weeks in primary at kegging time, and bottled 2 bombers or 750ml of each of the sacch. strains. I legged the Saison III with about a quart of the Brett starter. I blended the 3711 and Saison II together also with a quart of the Brett.

Saison III is the yeast of choice. With it and the Pacifica, I get a definite orange marmalade aroma and flavor with a bit of spice which could be yeast, Pacific Jade and/or yeast derived. This was clean at packaging time. I tapped that keg after a month with Brett, and it dried out as expected with lust a touch of funk developing. More lemon is coming through together with the orange now.

Saison II has a mustiness which was consistent with the 3rd batch. It gives a rustic quality and blends into the Brett character. But needs something to punch it up. I ended up dry hopping the prior batch with Citra which worked great. I'm not a fan of this yeast and won't buy it again.

3711 was also a bit musty, but brought forward a peach character. Not bad, but a little one dimensional. I think the mustiness may be due to the oats and rye.

The Brett starter was lightly tangy and a bit of pineapple flavor.

I filled a couple bombers of the Saison III/Brett from the tap. Around Christmas I hope to do a side by side comparison again with the bottle conditioned samples. I'd like to repeat it in springtime when they have been in bottles for 6 months.

Around Thanksgiving when I'm back home I need to bottle some samples from the other keg (3711/Saisson II/Brett). It's not chilled or tapped. So it should be significantly funkier than what's on tap. But based on batch 2 (Orval dregs in keg) and this one, I think a month with Brett is ideal for my tastes.

I subsequently used all 4 yeast cakes for a 11 gallon split batch of a dark rye saison with 4 ounces of Mosaic hops spread between FWH, 15 min and Whirlpool. I repeated the same bottling and kegging scheme on that one too. I included some cara-rye in that one which I regret. The licorice or tobacco definitely hurts it. Hopefully that drops or melds with some time and Brett activity in the kegs. I doubt I'll work at adjusting that recipe though. I simply brewed it to take advantage of the yeast cakes on hand.


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