Dangers to watch out for while brewing?

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justinm410

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I'll probably get made fun of as this is probably over-concerned. To start, I am a beginner so I thought this may be some good knowledge as I'm drinking this stuff. :mug: Are there any dangers to watch out for while brewing that you would not want to ingest if an experiment went wrong or brew were say contaminated?

Before brewing beer I was investigating the darker sides of brewing-- distilling, freeze distilling, general ye olde moonshine techniques, etc.-- for stronger brews. I then decided drinking quality was better than quantity in alcohol.

The danger that particularly existed there was having a high methanol content mixed in your ethanol after distilling. In lesser cases it results in a bad hangover, but can even result in death (especially freeze distilling).

Anything like this to watch out for while brewing beer or ciders?

P.S. Is it harmful to drink fermenting cider where the yeast is still fully active? (taste testing purposes)
 
Also if everyone feels this topic has been covered, just delete this thread. Like I said, I'm a beginner and may be beating a dead horse :D
 
You can drink yeast or bacteria fermenting beer or cider without safety issues, but you might get gassy. Nothing toxic grows in alcoholic wort/must/wash for fermentation.
You should be more concerned about burning yourself when boiling or heating mash water, or with dropping and breaking a glass carboy.
You can find the previous threads that are similar to your question in the list below...
 
This entire site is filled with "Dangers" found in homebrewing. Here's a few:

Lack of proper cleaning/sanitation
Broken glass
Burns
Bombs (either from carbonating bottles or vigourous fermentation in primary)

Everything else on top of that is supplementary, if you ask me (unless I forgot something)

Even if a batch becomes contaminated, you won't die from it (unless you want to read the botulism threads... I'll save you time and say don't worry about it). If anything, if the batch is so bad, you might feel sick right after drinking it for a minute, or be unable to drink any more.

As for worrying about yeast, you really don't need to. We ingest yeast all the time, even in finished beer. I, however, have to refrain from sampling active primary yeast, as I am prone to infection from high amounts of it (my doctor told me that... long story). If one thing is true, you really don't need to sample all that often, if not at all. The more you sample, the more you give the opportunity for infection to occur.

Hope I helped :)
 
For those disappointed they clicked on an already well covered topic. I believe you'll enjoy this, now your click has still resulted in a net gain.

party-fails-after-cliff-darwin-err-clavin-on-beer.jpg
 
There are dangers to homebrewing:

Sudden decrease in spare cash
free time spent contemplating next batch or equipment upgrade
exasperated significant other
stress over fermentation

Luckily you don't seem to care about these things. Because you're drinking homebrew!
 
Ok horse corpse...time to take another beating.

What about getting too creative with ingredients? At what point do you have to say to yourself, maybe if no one has ever done this before, boiling it for 60 minutes to see what happens might not be a good idea? I mean, that kind of try it and see aproach is pretty much how naturally occurring poisons are discovered in the first place right?
So most of us probably know that oleander, for instance would not be a good idea. I've got to think that there are probably all kinds of lesser known poisonous plants/herbs out there. Some may be fine to consume cooked, but raw it might make you really sick. Or vice-versa. Or maybe boiling it at a certain SG at a certain PH for a certain period of time isomerizes and concentrates some unstudied poison. Look at ayahuasca. Some of it's constituent parts might kill you, but they don't form the drug that triggers DMT production in your brain unless put together in just the right way. (Thank you Discovery Channel)

We like to think that almost every imaginable beer ingredient has probably been tried at one time or another. I'm not so sure. Almost everything obvious has probably already been tried, but what about the guy who goes out into his yard and decides he's going to make a one of a kind House brew with Eucalyptus blossoms, Acacia bark, and Crape Myrtle root? Just a wild example, no one I know...(looks around whistling).

If my example sounds like witches brew, I guess in a way it probably is. For a warlock like Charlie Sheen, it's probably not a big deal. But what about for everyone else? I guess the only way to be sure is to just ask Sam Calagione. If anyone knows, he will. Sam?
 
I think getting creative/crazy is ok but you have to an end goal in mind. If you are putting Eucalyptus blossoms in your beer are you trying to get a certain taste/aroma or are you just doing it to do it? Anybody can throw crazy ingredients in their beer, have it turn out awful, and say you are an experimental brewer. It's kind of like the guy who can't play piano and just bangs around on the keyboard and calls himself a musician.
 
Ok horse corpse...time to take another beating.

What about getting too creative with ingredients? At what point do you have to say to yourself, maybe if no one has ever done this before, boiling it for 60 minutes to see what happens might not be a good idea? I mean, that kind of try it and see aproach is pretty much how naturally occurring poisons are discovered in the first place right?
So most of us probably know that oleander, for instance would not be a good idea. I've got to think that there are probably all kinds of lesser known poisonous plants/herbs out there. Some may be fine to consume cooked, but raw it might make you really sick. Or vice-versa. Or maybe boiling it at a certain SG at a certain PH for a certain period of time isomerizes and concentrates some unstudied poison. Look at ayahuasca. Some of it's constituent parts might kill you, but they don't form the drug that triggers DMT production in your brain unless put together in just the right way. (Thank you Discovery Channel)

We like to think that almost every imaginable beer ingredient has probably been tried at one time or another. I'm not so sure. Almost everything obvious has probably already been tried, but what about the guy who goes out into his yard and decides he's going to make a one of a kind House brew with Eucalyptus blossoms, Acacia bark, and Crape Myrtle root? Just a wild example, no one I know...(looks around whistling).

If my example sounds like witches brew, I guess in a way it probably is. For a warlock like Charlie Sheen, it's probably not a big deal. But what about for everyone else? I guess the only way to be sure is to just ask Sam Calagione. If anyone knows, he will. Sam?

So what we have here is a prime example of Darwinian (natural) Selection. You see you are going to try some extremely stupid/crazy/wild stuff and the group as a whole is either going to lose a weak link, or gain some awesome knowledge that makes it stronger. Poison Oak Ale on tap next month at my place!!! :tank::drunk: In all seriousness, it is probably best you do a bit of homework on the subject. If you are ever in doubt on the toxicity of something, you should contact poison control and see what they have to say. Gives toxicologists something to do. I heard they had a pretty sweet gig in Colorado just hanging out and waiting for the next lucky (or unlucky given the likely poisoning) to give them a ring. Good luck and avoid the hemlock ale. Unless you have a really cool St. Patty's Day Cult and need a Koolaid alternative.:D
 
I have a buddy who go bleach poisoning from a batch of beer. He didn't rinse his equipment well enough.
 
The biggest concern for me is meteorites, followed shortly by zombies and then followed by the people that don't use the search function. This topic has been covered and recovered, literally to death... It may be a sticky...lol.

There is nothing that can NATURALLY exist in a FERMENTED beverage, over 2% abv that can harm a human being, short of the alcohol. Nope...nadda...zip...zero. Quite literally, if this was not the case NONE of us would be here today... I recommend heading over to Youtube (or a similar site) and watch the movie(s) called "How beer saved the world." (it may be broke up into parts 1, 2 and 3).
 
There is nothing that can NATURALLY exist in a FERMENTED beverage, over 2% abv that can harm a human being, short of the alcohol. Nope...nadda...zip...zero.

Amazing. So you're saying that all naturally occurring toxins and poisons can be rendered harmless to humans by diluting them in beer? This must be information supressed by big pharma, which of course makes perfect sense.

The part about this topic being covered to death was pretty funny though. :mug:
 
So what we have here is a prime example of Darwinian (natural) Selection. You see you are going to try some extremely stupid/crazy/wild stuff and the group as a whole is either going to lose a weak link, or gain some awesome knowledge that makes it stronger. Poison Oak Ale on tap next month at my place!!! :tank::drunk: In all seriousness, it is probably best you do a bit of homework on the subject. If you are ever in doubt on the toxicity of something, you should contact poison control and see what they have to say. Gives toxicologists something to do. I heard they had a pretty sweet gig in Colorado just hanging out and waiting for the next lucky (or unlucky given the likely poisoning) to give them a ring. Good luck and avoid the hemlock ale. Unless you have a really cool St. Patty's Day Cult and need a Koolaid alternative.:D

Admittedly, I have not perfected the use of satire to make a point, but that's what I was going for. Your response probably did a better job of making my point than I did, so thanks.
To be clear, I have no actual intentions of brewing with anything that doesn't have some sort of clear history of culinary use. At least, not without some test subjects...muahahahah!
 
Admittedly, I have not perfected the use of satire to make a point, but that's what I was going for. Your response probably did a better job of making my point than I did, so thanks.
To be clear, I have no actual intentions of brewing with anything that doesn't have some sort of clear history of culinary use. At least, not without some test subjects...muahahahah!

Naw, I got it just fine. It's just your in Turlock so it begs a bit of razzing from the hills. We have the better cults anyway.
 
Don´t brew with hemlock or arsenic... or tabacco and you will be fine, ethyl coma is something to be concernd about too
 
If you look into the ingredients that were used in gruit during the middle ages, you find that many of them are considered toxic. Mugwort, mandrake, myrica gale to name a few. The ancients put a small amount of these in beer for their psychotropic properties. So, say you were a Viking and wanted to get jazzed up to break some skulls, a few beers would make that ever so much more enjoyable.

Trouble is, the difference between a psychotropic dose and a fatal dose of many of these plants (eg datura) is sometimes measured in micrograms. I've made some gruits with mugwort, gale, marsh rosemary, yarrow, heather and I'll tell you I don't like to drink too much of this stuff because it can get pretty uncomfortable.
 
If you look into the ingredients that were used in gruit during the middle ages, you find that many of them are considered toxic. Mugwort, mandrake, myrica gale to name a few. The ancients put a small amount of these in beer for their psychotropic properties. So, say you were a Viking and wanted to get jazzed up to break some skulls, a few beers would make that ever so much more enjoyable.

Trouble is, the difference between a psychotropic dose and a fatal dose of many of these plants (eg datura) is sometimes measured in micrograms. I've made some gruits with mugwort, gale, marsh rosemary, yarrow, heather and I'll tell you I don't like to drink too much of this stuff because it can get pretty uncomfortable.

Like sex in the back of a V.W. bug uncomfortable? Do tell. I am always curious about the crazy trips others take.:fro:
 
Like sex in the back of a V.W. bug uncomfortable? Do tell. I am always curious about the crazy trips others take.:fro:

Like "whew, man am I feeling weird. What's in this stuff?" It's kind of like being a little drunk, but also strangely detached from reality in an unfamiliar way. Also, whereas hops are soporific, gruit is a stimulant. There's definitely something more going on there than alcohol and hops offer.
 
The biggest concern for me is meteorites, followed shortly by zombies and then followed by the people that don't use the search function. This topic has been covered and recovered, literally to death... It may be a sticky...lol.

There is nothing that can NATURALLY exist in a FERMENTED beverage, over 2% abv that can harm a human being, short of the alcohol. Nope...nadda...zip...zero. Quite literally, if this was not the case NONE of us would be here today... I recommend heading over to Youtube (or a similar site) and watch the movie(s) called "How beer saved the world." (it may be broke up into parts 1, 2 and 3).

Well ... if you can your pre-made starters (in jars) and don't properly sterilize them with a pressure canner, they can get Botulism. Make a starter out of that, and pour it in your wort and .... I sure wouldn't want to drink your beer.


Dangers -
1. Using a glass carboy that breaks, slicing you open. Think it can't happen? Ask around HBT if anyone has gotten hurt.

2. Being careless with a propane burner. Carbon monoxide poisoning. Knocking over a kettle, when the burner is precariously perched on bricks.

3. Being careless with an Erhlenmayer flask and microwaving the starter, then shaking it and having hot liquid squirt you, burning you.

4. Being stupid with a kettle of boiling wort, after flame out, and trying to carry it.
 
According to an old coot at Lowes, propane is a ticking time bomb and people that even have BBQ grills are in danger, let alone trying to build a manifold to run two burners. His quote was "you know what they say about propane? If you hear the boom, your at least still alive!"
 
That guy probably never watched the mythbusters on propane tanks. Those things are tuff and aren't very easy to explode, there's a good bit of safety built into those tanks.
 
KeyWestBrewing said:
That guy probably never watched the mythbusters on propane tanks. Those things are tuff and aren't very easy to explode, there's a good bit of safety built into those tanks.

Exactly. He had me terrified to hook up my manifold though. Good thing my father in law was a train pipe fitter for 30 years. He got a kick out of the story and said if it was so dangerous they wouldn't use the same pipe for gas in our houses. A little pipe dope on the iron pipe, no leaks and has been running flawless for 10+ batches.

The old coot at Lowes actually asked me to come back in after I hooked it up and used it to let him know I was still alive. I understand that from a liability stand point he probably couldn't say it'd work perfectly, but to go on and on about how dangerous it was is just silly!

It's at least coined new phrases to joke about on brew day - "you know what they say about water? If you hear it flowing that means you haven't drowned."
 
Make sure if your using a copper wort chiller and you notice it has any green oxidized spots or areas give it a good soak in star san to polish it up. I've read, no real experience here, that if you were to use the chiller without doing so that it could infect the batch, make you sick, and make the beer poisonous. Other than that I've read that too much fusels can make you go blind... Again no experience. On a side note, there's a distiller in my brew club and he says the temperature differences are so drastic that differentiating the head and tail end from the good stuff is unmistakable. Though he does use a reflux still.
 
Why are you asking about distilling? I don't think that has anything to do with beer, then again, I could be wrong.

I'll happily add to the list of dangers related to homebrewing with this:

IF YOU HAVE A DOG, MAKE SURE THEY DON'T GET A HOLD OF YOUR HOPS.

Sorry for the caps/bold, but I love my dog, and I get really paranoid when she's outside and I'm brewing, because she eats just about anything that hits the floor. Hops are toxic to dogs. Might be only certain breeds, but don't take any chances. If your dog eats any hops, get them to a vet. STAT.
 
Dangers to watch out for while brewing?

Has anyone said:

1) Neighbors who call the police because they think you're cooking meth?
2) Friends who mooch all your homebrew and can only pay you back in Bud Light?
3) Trying relentlessly to make a brew SWMBO will like, only to end up with 40 gallons of "insert fruity names here" that you have to personally drink?
4) Substantial decrease in disposable income spent on brew gadgets/substantial increase in liver damage.

5) And the BIGGEST brewing danger to watch out for:

Increase in frequency and pungency of farts due to yeast ingestion.
 
Well ... if you can your pre-made starters (in jars) and don't properly sterilize them with a pressure canner, they can get Botulism. Make a starter out of that, and pour it in your wort and .... I sure wouldn't want to drink your beer.

I disagree, Botulism can NOT live through the fermentation process. In the one and ONLY study that was sited on this very subject, they inoculated the wort with the botulism spores, let the botulism take hold AND then fermented UNBOILED wort.

Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation. Even if you are a real wort starter brewer AND a no chill/pitch the next day brewer, the botulism will not have grown in a large enough quantity to be dangerous in the volumes of liquid we use.

So, in a lab environment when someone intentionally inoculates to get botulism into a small amount of wort, lets it take hold, then ferments the unboiled wort it is possible.

Unfortunately, no brewer on earth makes beer this way... IF this was not true there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...

Dangers -
1. Using a glass carboy that breaks, slicing you open. Think it can't happen? Ask around HBT if anyone has gotten hurt.

2. Being careless with a propane burner. Carbon monoxide poisoning. Knocking over a kettle, when the burner is precariously perched on bricks.

3. Being careless with an Erhlenmayer flask and microwaving the starter, then shaking it and having hot liquid squirt you, burning you.

4. Being stupid with a kettle of boiling wort, after flame out, and trying to carry it.

^^ these are all good points!
 
I took my immersion chiller out of my boil kettle hooked it up to my faucet it sprayed scalding hot water all over my face and head. I now have a plate chiller :)
 
Its not that the bacteria (Clostridium Botulinum) will live, its that the Botulism toxin is already present, from the starter. It sounds like from their study, they did not let the infection go to far, they just made sure the spores were active and the bacteria reproducing.

>>Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation.

That's is different form letting 2 liters run its full course (over days/weeks/months) of Botulism infection, and toxin creation.

A 2 liter starter (full of toxin, not just trace amounts) in a 19 liter beer is 90% diluted.
Care to drink that?
Let us know how it works out for you. :mug:

I disagree, Botulism can NOT live through the fermentation process. In the one and ONLY study that was sited on this very subject, they inoculated the wort with the botulism spores, let the botulism take hold AND then fermented UNBOILED wort.

Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation. Even if you are a real wort starter brewer AND a no chill/pitch the next day brewer, the botulism will not have grown in a large enough quantity to be dangerous in the volumes of liquid we use.

So, in a lab environment when someone intentionally inoculates to get botulism into a small amount of wort, lets it take hold, then ferments the unboiled wort it is possible.

Unfortunately, no brewer on earth makes beer this way... IF this was not true there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...



^^ these are all good points!
 
Its not that the bacteria (Clostridium Botulinum) will live, its that the Botulism toxin is already present, from the starter. It sounds like from their study, they did not let the infection go to far, they just made sure the spores were active and the bacteria reproducing.

>>Meaning they intentionally made sure the toxin was present before the fermentation.

That's is different form letting 2 liters run its full course (over days/weeks/months) of Botulism infection, and toxin creation.

The problem is the yeast will eat the sugar the botulism needs...same food source. Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

Once again I ask, where is ANY proof that this HAS ever happened outside of a lab case study?
 
>>Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

yes they do. Many people add the entire contents of the starter to the wort after 24-26 hours.

I personally let it fully ferment and decant, but many directly add the entire contents of the starter.
 
>>Also you are adding ALL the liquid that has the infection into unboiled wort... No one does that.

yes they do. Many people add the entire contents of the starter to the wort after 24-26 hours.

I personally let it fully ferment and decant, but many directly add the entire contents of the starter.

Ok this is subjective... and is just a "they do/do not" argument with no way to really prove it so I will agree with you...

however, what we NEED to have is any real world proof that someone has contracted botulism from homemade beer, wine or mead has EVER happened, until you can provide this I am DONE discussing it. YOU are fear mongering. Your claim that someone can get botulism poisoning from homemade beer, wine or mead is silly, unprecedented and outlandish. I say one has the same odds of being trampled to death by a unicorn!

...there would be a number of cases that this happened to "X" people. Should you be able to debunk my statements or produce ANY evidence that this HAS happened with home brewed beer, wine or mead I will change my tune, until then this is a bigger myth than unicorns...

or

Once again I ask, where is ANY proof that this HAS ever happened outside of a lab case study?

EDIT: "My friend knows a guy" is not proof. I am talking about documented cases or even A case from a credible source. Someone that is making prison toilet hootch also does not count as that is not considered home made beer, wine or mead; if it was, there would be a BJCP category for it. The reason you will NEVER be able to produce the required proof is because it does not exist.
 
Zamial said:
Someone that is making prison toilet hootch also does not count as that is not considered home made beer, wine or mead; if it was, there would be a BJCP category for it.

This made my day.
 
I'd shy away from brewing with Mercury, Prestone, radio-active waste, Fly Agaric, toad stools, turds, DDT, brightly colored pills and lead water pipes. Although, I believe that lead or Mercury might have some influence on ideas and questions on the forum. It's too bad Louis Carroll didn't mention a brewery in Alice Through the Looking Glass. Carlos Costaneda may have a recipe for Apache Shaman Ale.
 
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