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Old 10-28-2005, 08:10 PM   #1
Thor
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Default Tasty "lager" using ale process?

During my first homebrew store visit, the store staff briefly mentioned that there are lagers, or at least lager-like beers that can be made using the ale method. By "ale method," I mean a fermentation 65-72ish degrees vs. colder,thus no refrigerated fermentation required.

I have a red ale in secondary and will be making a Fat Tire clone as soon as I bottle the red ale, and next want to make a lager, something lighter, pale in color, crisp. However, I don't have the refrigeration space to do this authentically using the traditional lager method.

Does anyone have good "lager-like" recipes or recommendations using the ale method? I can use LME/DME and grain or other additives, and I am open to a good kit or kit plus additives. I don't do all-grain yet.

I appreciate the insight. Also, if you have any comments on what the appropriate primary, secondary and bottling times are, that would be most helpful.


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Old 10-28-2005, 08:15 PM   #2
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thats' called a "California Common" or "steam" beer. It's a beer that uses a lager yeast, but Ale temperatures.

You can probably find a lot of "california common" recipes and brewing processes with some searching.

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Old 10-28-2005, 08:21 PM   #3
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Plenty of california common recipes to be found, a number of which try to mimic the commerically available "Anchor Steam" beer. They are pretty extract + grain friendly too.
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:45 PM   #4
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Ive made some light beers with dry lager yeast fermenting in the 68-72 range with great sucess.
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Old 10-28-2005, 11:52 PM   #5
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Do you guys consider anchor steam light and crisp? From my experiances it is neither.
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Old 10-29-2005, 12:54 PM   #6
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Also, if you dont have any way to lager, you can brew most lager recipes, and use Wyeast's 1007 German Ale yeast. Its well know for its lager-like characteristic's, and will ferment at temps of 55 degrees and up.

The downside to it is its poor flocculation, and unless you are filtering it, it will leave a good amount in suspension.
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Old 10-29-2005, 03:55 PM   #7
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try using White Labs German Ale/Kolsch yeast strain. a little cold conditioning for 3-4 weeks once racked to secondary will do it good. you don't have too, but it will help. the higher ferm temps will yield more fruitty-esthery flavors.
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Old 10-29-2005, 11:07 PM   #8
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You might try a champagne yeast like lalvin EC-1118. It's very clean and works from 45 to 95F.
http://consumer.lallemand.com/dansta...in/ec1118.html

I'm using it for a special batch right now.

Danstar, their beer yeast div., is sending me a bunch of samples. They have an ale yeast that is often used to brew lager recipes as ales. I think Nottingham is the one they suggest for this purpose.
http://consumer.lallemand.com/dansta...ottingham.html


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Old 11-01-2005, 10:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor
... next want to make a lager, something lighter, pale in color, crisp. However, I don't have the refrigeration space to do this authentically using the traditional lager method.

Does anyone have good "lager-like" recipes or recommendations using the ale method? I can use LME/DME and grain or other additives, and I am open to a good kit or kit plus additives. I don't do all-grain yet.
Don't mean to knock anyone here, but I don't think the responses about "California Common Beer" are really going to give you what you're looking for. I think a much closer approximation would be to go for a Koelsch, and it will be mostly a matter of what yeast you choose.

I'm detailing my Koelsch attempt in another thread (it's still in primary), but here are some suggestions so far:
* If you're really going for a pale color like Heineken or Pilsner Urquell rather than Pale-as-in-not-Guinness, you shouldn't use any adjuncts darker than Vienna, and not much of that. I used 2 ounces (!) of Munich in my batch, and it's quite orange. Real lager brewers are probably chuckling right now, but it was in a recipe I found, I swear...
* some common lager adjuncts (esp. Carapils) require mashing, but you won't use a lot of them and your entire grain bill could be under 2 lbs. That's OK, it's good to learn partial mashing
* If you use WLP029 Koelsch yeast, it's slow to start and does stink of sulphur for a couple days in a row (or at least mine did). Try to resist opening it up and stirring; it should be fine if you give the sealed fermenter a shake if it hasn't started in 24 hours or so.

More details after I bottle and sample it... Oh, also if you want the taste to be really "crisp" you should probably do a decoction (partial) mash; I didn't but I think I will try that next time I make something like this.
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Old 11-02-2005, 02:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeRoux's Broux
try using White Labs German Ale/Kolsch yeast strain. a little cold conditioning for 3-4 weeks once racked to secondary will do it good. you don't have too, but it will help. the higher ferm temps will yield more fruitty-esthery flavors.

munichs go good in octoberfest/marzen, ambers, browns, etc.

if you want a chech pilz or light lager, do lager. using a kolsch strain at higher ferm temps will give you a fruity, blonde ale. a california common is a lager strain fermented at a higher temps, close to ale temp, opposite a kolsch strain (ale at lager temps). still good, but not a pilsner urquell.
i was in the same boat. i wanted to do a pilz, but didn't have the equipment or conditions to do it. you can brew a beer w/ lager yeast at higher, ale like temps, and it might taste okay. some give bubble gum like flavors, some are just fruitier (like a german ale/kolsch strain). be happy brewing a blonde ale or an alt (darker german ale) or kolsch. just don't expect to get a lager beer if you don't have the means to ferment below 55 degrees, and lager for 3-6 weeks at 30-32 degrees.


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