Virginia Beach Water Report & ph confusion - Page 3 - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Virginia Beach Water Report & ph confusion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2012, 04:09 PM   #21
bobbrews
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Sierra, Nevada
Posts: 4,037
Liked 440 Times on 351 Posts


Because I was trying to get a basic point across (probably in poor fashion) that the ratio matters more than the numbers on their own (to an extent). Whether you're driving 100mph or 85mph in a 60mph zone, you're still probably going to get pulled over. However, you might not be pulled over you were going 70 in a 60mph zone.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 04:14 PM   #22
afr0byte
Recipes 
 
Aug 2010
Vermont
Posts: 1,451
Liked 74 Times on 62 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
Because I was trying to get a basic point across (probably in poor fashion) that the ratio matters more than the numbers on their own (to an extent). Whether you're driving 100mph or 85mph in a 60mph zone, you're still probably going to get pulled over. However, you might not be pulled over you were going 70 in a 60mph zone.
Well, then, you probably should have mentioned that you were only talking about a certain range of values. What you said before just wasn't true.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Recipes 
 
Aug 2010
McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 9,283
Liked 1484 Times on 1134 Posts


The notion that chloride and sulfate represent not 2 but a single degree of freedom is very appealing to the starting brewer who is totally bewildered by the dozens of degrees of freedom that he must in fact deal with. Sulfate isn't something you can do much about short of RO, distillation or ion exchange. Wouldn't it be nice if you could compensate for extra sulfate by simply adding more chloride? Or if you have gypseous water wouldn't it be great if you could reduce the effect of that by simply increasing chloride? Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Nevertheless the appeal is so great that somebody took 1 paragraph out of a British brewing text which doesn't even say that chloride sulfate ratio defines the beer, even in part and the next thing you know everyone (not everyone - some of us know better) thinks there's a single parameter 'chloride sulfate ratio' that moves one along a 'malty-hoppy' axis. But as I noted in an earlier post any statement to the effect that the ratio is more important than the individual levels must add 'except in continental brewing' where low sulfate is sought.

To demonstrate that the concept of a ratio is valid one would have to do principal components analysis on lots and lots of beers and demonstrate that log[Cl-] and log[SO4--] lie close to the same principal component but on opposite sides of the origin which is the statisticians way of saying adding more of one cancels the effects of the other. One can do simple experiments with finished beer by adding salt and gypsum and tasting. It shouldn't take too many experiments to convince the curious that the idea is fallacious.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Penn Water Authority (Montgomery Co., PA) Water Report lebshiff21 Brew Science 11 04-30-2014 10:13 PM
Help Analyzing Water Report - Very Hard Water BrewThruYou Brew Science 6 04-18-2012 06:17 PM
Water Engineering for PA : AJs Water Primer based on Ward Lab Report mrcastellino Brew Science 4 11-22-2011 04:55 AM
Water Report - Distilled Water in my Future? nut4wine Brew Science 4 08-10-2011 10:07 AM
Ward Water Report and Bru'n Water Sheet, now what? ToastedPenguin Brew Science 1 07-22-2011 07:58 PM


Forum Jump