Lager starter

Ive been reading, and just want to verify: the only difference between an ale starter and a lager starter is size, correct? No different procedures or ingredients? Gonna brew my first lager soon and wanna get it right

Yep, Just the size....I am not sure if this the proper procedure BUT, I let my lagers sit at room temp for the first 24-36 hours and then bring them down to lager primary temps

Cheers Jeffd

Chefencore said:

Ive been reading, and just want to verify: the only difference between an ale starter and a lager starter is size, correct? No different procedures or ingredients? Gonna brew my first lager soon and wanna get it right

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There's a bit more to it than that. The term "lager" comes from "lagern" which means "to store." There is some debate on this, but in my opinion two things define a lager: (1) the use of lager (bottom-fermenting) yeast strains which tend to work best at much cooler strains than ales (typical lager temperature is 50 degrees or just under/over) (2) the process of extended cold storage, in line with the tradition of lager brewing. Some people recommend one week per 8 points of OG--so a 1.050 pilsner would lager for just over six weeks. If you go one day per gravity point that's pretty good too.

The biggest and most important difference between lagers and ales is with respect to fermentation. Because lagers should be fermented quite cool (using lager strains at ale temperatures yields bad results unless you are trying to achieve a "steam" (California common) ale, you have to have some way of controlling your fermentation temperature. You also have to pitch a LOT of yeast--which is where your original question of a bigger starter comes in. I try to achieve 1.5 million cells per millilitre of wort per degree Plato--so for a 5.25 gallon (21 litre) batch of that same 1.050 pilsner I will try to pitch 400 billion cells or just under. You can achieve this with a single very large starter that should be chilled and decanted after fermentation completes, or with stepped starters that allow those with smaller flasks on stirplates to build up cell counts effectively, or with multiple packages of dry yeast.

A lot of people pitch warm then cool their wort to fermentation temps when they see activity. The optimal procedure is to pitch a few degrees cool if anything, then warm to fermentation temperature. Pitching warm is more forgiving for brewers who tend to underpitch. Pitching sufficient quantities of yeast cool IMO is likely to yield better results.

jeffd10 said:

Yep, Just the size....I am not sure if this the proper procedure BUT, I let my lagers sit at room temp for the first 24-36 hours and then bring them down to lager primary temps

Cheers Jeffd

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Although what osagedr said is all accurate and helpful information about lagers, I believe you asked about starters. This post is how most people, including myslef, make lager starters. Although I will generally give it 3-4 days to ferment out (I don't have a stir plate) since the size of the starter is so large. Some people will say to make it at lagering temps but that's not really the best (or quickest) way to grow yeast, even lager yeast. I do always pitch at 45 and ferment at 50.

The question I have about lager starters, is this...

I made a starter at room temp (70-75F) and then let it ferment out. I placed it in the fridge so I could decant off as much of the crappy starter beer as I could, removed as much as I could and then pitched. However, after decanting, shoudl I leave my yeast on the counter for a few hours to warm up to pitching temps (45-50F) or should I just pitch right away with the yeast having been sitting at 35ish in my fridge for hte past 2 days?

Also, since the fridge step causes the yeast to go dormant, does pitching the yeast to the 50F wort cause the yeast to wake and up smile at all this new food I've provided them?

Thanks!

It's generally considered best practise to have your yeast temp and wort temp within ten degrees of each other at pitching. So yeah, decanting a bit ahead of time then letting the slurry warm up is a good way to go. Likely not a huge deal but why not give the little beasts the most favourable conditions you can?

The only thing I have to add is that since the liquid mass is diminished it tends to warm up fairly quickly after decanting.

Has anyone had any success with a primary lager fermentation temperature of 42-44 f? I don't want to invest in a temp controller if I don't have to, but I don't want to make sub-par beer either.

Additional information: I am making a 3 gallon batch and I plan to make a starter with 1 vial of WLP840 American Pilsner Lager yeast.

Here is a question to add to this thread about lager starters. This is my first time using bottom-fermenting yeast in a starter. It took almost 24 hours for me to activity in the 2L starter that I created on a stir plate. Is lager yeast slower at reproducing than the equivalent ale yeast at the same temperature?

scurry64 said:

Has anyone had any success with a primary lager fermentation temperature of 42-44 f? .

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I ferment my lagers in my keezer which is set to 44F. I do a two step starter (1.75L each) and have had zero problems. This is with WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast.

kozer99 said:

Here is a question to add to this thread about lager starters. This is my first time using bottom-fermenting yeast in a starter. It took almost 24 hours for me to activity in the 2L starter that I created on a stir plate. Is lager yeast slower at reproducing than the equivalent ale yeast at the same temperature?

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No, it's more about the age and viability of the yeast than whether it's an ale or a lager yeast.