BIAB, why mashout? - Page 3 - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > BIAB, why mashout?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2012, 06:12 PM   #21
MalFet
/bɪər nɜrd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2010
NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,632
Liked 1474 Times on 975 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by sivdrinks View Post
What are the enzymes doing that need stopped? If I pull the bag out and drain/squeeze isn't that enough? I only mentioned water volume because I figured the extra amount with BIAB/no sparge would take care of rinsing the sugars. I'm still new so be gentle!
ayoungrad addressed the technical issues, but to answer your other question: I see no benefit to doing a mashout with a full volume, no sparge BIAB. If you're getting good results without one, you've got no reason to change.
__________________
"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 06:42 PM   #22
Seven
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,538
Liked 168 Times on 80 Posts


I'm confident that mashouts with BIAB do make a difference.

Converting starches to sugars is one thing. But comparing traditional AG mashouts to BIAB mashouts is like comparing apples to oranges. With AG, it's all about stopping enzymatic activity, etc. With BIAB, the mash is heated to 170 to make it more fluid and thereby easier to drain the wort into the kettle. Getting as much wort as possible into the kettle is critical with no-sparge BIAB. Try it some time and you'll see the difference...

This whole argument about whether efficiency can be improved or not but doing a mashout sounds like it would be a good experiment. Mash two batches of grain and keep everything identical except that one gets a mashout and the other doesn't. Then calculate efficiency and see if there is a difference or not. I will try this one day unless someone else beats me to it.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 06:55 PM   #23
MalFet
/bɪər nɜrd/
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
MalFet's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2010
NYC / Kathmandu
Posts: 8,632
Liked 1474 Times on 975 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven View Post
Converting starches to sugars is one thing. But comparing traditional AG mashouts to BIAB mashouts is like comparing apples to oranges. With AG, it's all about stopping enzymatic activity, etc. With BIAB, the mash is heated to 170 to make it more fluid and thereby easier to drain the wort into the kettle. Getting as much wort as possible into the kettle is critical with no-sparge BIAB. Try it some time and you'll see the difference...
I understand what you're saying; I just disagree. I'm not sure what "grain bed fluidity" means in this context, and I can't really picture how cooler grain husks would retain more water than warmer grain husks would. Certainly the temperature difference isn't impacting solubility in a way that should be relevant to home brewers.

More importantly, I have run exactly the experiment you are proposing dozens of times. Sometimes I batch sparge with hot water and sometimes with cold. My system is honed in and I hit my numbers every time. I get identical lauter efficiency numbers at 60F that I get at 170F. You're welcome to whatever opinion you'd like, of course, but I've never seen anything other than conventional wisdom to suggest that grain bed temperature at drain/lauter/bag-removal impacts efficiency.
__________________
"Be excellent to each other." -Benjamin Franklin

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #24
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,245
Liked 1695 Times on 1089 Posts


The more controlled way to do this experiment is to first test for sugar concentration at the end of the mash to calculate mash efficiency. Then suspend the bag and time exactly 5 minutes of draining. Measure the volume and gravity. Next, put the bag back into the pot/wort, raise the temp to 170 and repeat the 5 minute hang and measurements.

If the second gravity reading is higher, ramping the temp added more conversion.
If the gravity is all the same but the second volume is higher, the theory of "wort fluidity" is confirmed for now.

My best guess is that any increases in efficiency simply due to raised temps is due to added conversion.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
Corny Keg Dry Hop Canisters $26.50 for limited time
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

OG_IBU_Bunghole Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:11 PM   #25
Lennie
Recipes 
 
Dec 2008
Hannibal, MO
Posts: 584
Liked 13 Times on 12 Posts


When I do a mashout I'll get a few more gravity points but they generally also show up in my FG, so they are mostly unfermentables. Its a good trick for when I want more body.

As for the warmer wort flowing better, the difference in viscosity is negligible and draining occurs nicely either way.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:22 PM   #26
bschoenb
Recipes 
 
Dec 2010
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 322
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven View Post
I'm confident that mashouts with BIAB do make a difference.

Converting starches to sugars is one thing. But comparing traditional AG mashouts to BIAB mashouts is like comparing apples to oranges. With AG, it's all about stopping enzymatic activity, etc. With BIAB, the mash is heated to 170 to make it more fluid and thereby easier to drain the wort into the kettle. Getting as much wort as possible into the kettle is critical with no-sparge BIAB. Try it some time and you'll see the difference...

This whole argument about whether efficiency can be improved or not but doing a mashout sounds like it would be a good experiment. Mash two batches of grain and keep everything identical except that one gets a mashout and the other doesn't. Then calculate efficiency and see if there is a difference or not. I will try this one day unless someone else beats me to it.
+1 on getting more extraction on Mashout; I get about 3-5 OG points w/170 mashout as I begin to heat my mash tun / boil kettle. You gotta heat it anyway?... Also, the whole Denatured enzyme is a redhering in BIAB.
__________________
~ BIAB : All Grain Made Easy ; Mash, Sparge, Boil all in the same Kettle ~ all you need is a bag and a hook!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:35 PM   #27
wilserbrewer
BIAB Expert Tailor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
wilserbrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2007
Jersey Shore, New Jersey
Posts: 9,536
Liked 1368 Times on 1047 Posts


Thanks for the collective information, brewed BIAB style this morning and didn't bother w/ a mashout...will report w/ results, but since I have no control experiment, lets just say I'm happy to shortcut the process for a perhaps a few handfulls of grain.

HopZombie99 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 06:15 PM   #28
ayoungrad
Recipes 
 
Sep 2010
Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,102
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by bschoenb View Post
+1 on getting more extraction on Mashout; I get about 3-5 OG points w/170 mashout as I begin to heat my mash tun / boil kettle. You gotta heat it anyway?... Also, the whole Denatured enzyme is a redhering in BIAB.
BIAB has tons of variations. Not everyone uses the exact set-up or techniques that you use. As an example... some people even BIAB and mash the night or day before they start their boil because of timing issues, etc. For them, mashing out makes sense.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 06:47 PM   #29
BeerAlchemist
Recipes 
 
Jan 2012
, England
Posts: 25

I heard using a mash out helps yeast ferment later on by removing more of certain proteins from the grains as well as higher ABV from natural sugars.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 10:12 PM   #30
enkamania
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
enkamania's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2010
Seattle, WA
Posts: 646
Liked 71 Times on 55 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
For example, if a given bill normally takes 60 minutes to convert at 152F, you can do 30 minutes at 152 and spend 15 minutes ramping up to 168 and it will definitely be done.
I might just try this.
__________________
Brewing is the perfect combination of cooking, science and alcholism

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools



Forum Jump