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Old 02-24-2012, 07:24 PM   #1
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Default Quick Sour Saison

In an effort to have lots of saison for me to drink this summer I am brewing a double batch. This is a total experiment using methods I've read about but never saw a thread from beginning to end on how it went. Plus I have a pH meter to track this from start to finish.

So here's the recipe:


Quick Sour Saison
Saison
Type: All Grain Date: 2/17/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 gal Brewer: Adam Cole
Boil Size: 15.06 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Penrose Kettle (18Gal) and Cooler (13Gal)
End of Boil Volume 13.26 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 11.50 gal Est Mash Efficiency 87.1 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (1.3 SRM) Grain 1 47.4 %
5 lbs Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 25 %
4 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 21.1 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (Franco Belges) (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 10.5 %
2.00 oz Strisslespalt [2.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 5 9.8 IBUs
3.00 oz Serebrianka [3.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 6 6.3 IBUs
3.00 oz Strisslespalt [2.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 4.5 IBUs
3.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.0 pkg Brasserie Dupont (Mine #bottle) Yeast 9 -
1.0 pkg Farmhouse Brett (East Coast Yeast #ECY03) [50.00 ml] Yeast 10 -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.28 ml] Yeast 11 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.044 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.005 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 20.6 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 3.1 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Saison Total Grain Weight: 19 lbs
Sparge Water: 7.84 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 175.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash Step Add 10.30 gal of water at 127.8 F 122.0 F 30 min
Mash Step Decoct 3.50 gal of mash and boil it 148.0 F 60 min
Dextrinization Decoct 1.52 gal of mash and boil it 156.0 F 10 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 7.84 gal water at 175.0 F


The yeast plan is to try and use a grown up culture from a Saison Dupont bottle. If that craps out because of the low pH then I will try some Wyeast 3711. I pretty much think of 3711 as the last call if you really want a beer to attenuate. I still have apprehension that even the beast of 3711 will take the pH well. So as a last ditch effort I will drop the nuke and give it some ECY04 Brett Blend No. 1 which won't have an issue with the pH. I'd like to keep it non bretted at this point just for comparison sake. That's for one six gal half.

Then the other 6 gal will get ECY03 Farmhouse Brett. That I will just leave alone and it should be ready for bottles in four or so months based on my experience with that yeast. However the low starting pH of the wort may give the sacch blend in that yeast a hard time leaving more work for the brett. This, of course, can lengthen the fermentation time.

I will monitor pH along the way. As it stands now the pH of the mash ended up at 4.02 when I checked it using a freshly calibrated Milwaukee MW102 with temperature correction.

Stay tuned, more to come. I didn't know whether to really put this in recipes/techniques or wild brews. I figured with the brett and the fact that most of you guys are after sour/funky this fit here best.


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Old 02-24-2012, 08:42 PM   #2
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Im very interested to hear the results, I'm sitting on a vial of ECY 03 Id like to use very shortly.


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Old 02-25-2012, 04:31 PM   #3
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I just took a pH reading of the wort post boil that I saved in a sample tube from last night. The pH is reading at 3.95 before yeast. I took a mason jar sized helping of the wort to ferment separate of the two yeasts. I put 3711 in for fast maximum attenuation and I will see what that pH ends up at before the rest of them get there. It will give me an idea if the other yeast will have a problem too. Currently the mini-satellite ferment is sitting at 3.65 pH.

As it stands right now the fermentors are chugging along with a nice krausen this morning. They both were at ambient temp over night which was like 65 in my house. I have since added heat to get the both of them going more aggressively.

It should be a fairly fast fermentation between the two due to fairly low 1.046 measured gravity. Only time will tell if the pH causes any issues.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #4
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So the two fermented through the weekend. ECY03 is down to 1.010ish and the Dupont fermentor in typical fashion is sitting at 1.025 still fermenting. My mini-satellite with 3711 made it down to 1.007 (high for a 3711 beer from what I know). The mini ferment has a very dry hoppy flavor to it. The thing is that it's not a very acidic flavor. Maybe after the beers have time to settle more of the acid will be tasted. Right now I just taste carbonation really because of them still actively fermenting or just finishing. The pH is sitting at 3.49 in the satellite fermentation. They do not have anywhere near the acidity I got from my 5 month fermented wild saison with ECY20.

My experience with ECY03 and the way I mash my saisons the ECY03 is on its way to 1.003-1.004. I mash low and then pull a decoction and raise to 158-160. This gives brett something to deal with. My Dupont fermentor will likely get 3711 or some ECY04 though it is still moving right along as the dupont is known to proceed. I'll let it go for a while longer I guess.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:08 AM   #5
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It's likely I'm going to steal your recipe on this, I have ECY03 and have been dying to use it. I may change the hops a bit so if you don't mind I run it by you when I create the hop schedule.

What's your total expected timeframe on the ECY batch.

Keep us posted, looks great.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:54 AM   #6
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The last two saisons I used ECY03 with took at least 3-4 months to get down to a gravity I was comfortable bottling. The second was faster than the first possibly because it was a second pitch. Often times when I bottle these beers with brett I prime to a certain level and then I will allow the brett to ferment a bit more in the bottle building some more carbonation. I don't want to let my beer sit around for 8 months in a carboy just because there's 3-4 gravity points that can be shaved off by the brett. So I will bottle and figure for 1-1.5 volumes of carbonation from brett in addition to what I prime. It's been a great technique for me and my rye saison with ECY03 that I bottled back in September is almost perfectly carbed. It's got lots of tiny bubbles like champagne.

I think most hop schedules will work with this as long as it's bigger on aroma and flavor additions. I will be dry hopping each fermentor with .5oz of each hop used in the beer. So 1oz total will be going into both fermentors before I get around to bottling. I also did not end up using seeds of paradise I only had .7 gram on hand which was WAY short on the 3 grams I planned.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:08 PM   #7
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I decided to transfter the ECY03 portion to it's secondary 6 gal better bottle last night since I didn't see any noticeable activity in the air lock of the bucket. At transfer it has a nice flavor just a little banana heavy. That will age out in time because of the brett strain in this blend. My last two batches have and I don't see how this would be different.

I tasted this and the Dupont portion side by side and found that the ECY03 tastes hoppier and drier at this point, however that is likely due to the Dupont portion having twice the amount of gravity left at at point. So as the dupont finished up which should be in the next month I'll update upon transfer or bottling. The ECY03 has a ways to go likely three months but my last batch was done in about 2.5 months.

I'm happy with the flavor thus far.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:51 PM   #8
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Took a pH reading and sample of both fermentors. The pH of both is very close at around 3.65. I don't think it will drop much further than it is at this point.

ECY03 almost done. Sitting at 1.004 already somehow made it down this far. I suspect it's the pH and making it more comfortable for the brett to do its thing. Taste of banana is mostly gone now. Just slight belgian esters with hop spiciness and sour. Lost some of the yogurt-like sourness and is just a soft lactic sourness. Certainly coming around nicely.

Dupont is still sitting at about 1.010 however still fermenting. The flavor is great on this one. Still a decent amount of gravity left to ferment out.

I might blend the two together for bottling but I'm not entirely sure. I will at least bottle a 12 pack to a case of each separate. Then I might blend the remainder and bottle it that way.
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:22 PM   #9
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So do you think you will be bottling the ECY half soon?
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #10
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There's still active bubbles floating to the surface of the beer. So it's still fermenting. I will let it go for another week or two then I'll take it into my garage to clear a bit. I will bottle it after it clears a bit.


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