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Old 02-16-2012, 07:21 PM   #1
callemann
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Default beet molasses vs dark candi syrup

Hello!

I am in the process of making a quad,and naturally I will need dark candi syrup. I want to make it myself and I am willing to dedicate time and energy to acheive it. I do have one big problem. It seems there is no accepted way of truly replicating this at home. I have seen recipes, but they either produce insufficient flavor or fermentability. So I have done some research on what the syrup actually ist, at least what is revealed, but I have ended up a bit confused.

As far as I have understood, the dark syrup(DS) is at least a byproduct from belgian sugar beet refinement. Going a bit deeper, I read that it is most likely the syrup remaining after the beet juice has undergone carbonatation and the juice has been boiled and as much pure sucrose had been crystallized out of the syrup as possible. The dark colour and taste of this product seems to be a result of mainly Malliard reactions between sugars and amino acids from the beet proteins created during boiling and cooling of the syrup,as well as aromatic and tasteful remnants/residuals of the beet. At the same time though, I have read several places that this syrup is in fact known as beet molasses. And I have also read that dark candi syrup and molasses definately does not taste the same. I do know there is significant difference between cane and beet molasses, but I have not tasted them myself.

So my questions are as follows:
1. Is beet molasses and dark candi syrup the same thing?
2. if not, what is the difference?
3. How can I most accurately make the syrup at home without compromising either taste or fermentability.

I am familiar with methods involving both DAP, different sugars, acids, bases and temperatures, but as far as I know none of these are comparable enough to the real deal. Rochefort 10 has been my holy grail for the past 3 years, and if I can come close to reproducing it on my own I would be infinately grateful! Thank you in advance for your help!


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Old 02-17-2012, 05:24 AM   #2
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I forgot to ask for one last thing. Is the reduced fermentability because of maillard or caramelization? If its the latter, could a solution be to keep the temperature lower, but for an extended time period, to maximize maillards and reduce pyrolysis? Thanks again!


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Old 02-17-2012, 08:14 PM   #3
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anyone?
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #4
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bump
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #5
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They aren't the same.

Molasses is a byproduct of the sugar manufacturing process. Dark candi syrup is sugar boiled and carmelized with water and a small amount of citric or lactic acid. The longer you cook the sugar water, the darker it becomes.

If you are making dark candi syrup, try using date sugar in addition to beet sugar. The date sugar adds a nice flavor that may be closer to what you want. I suppose you could add some molasses to your syrup too, but I haven't tried that.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:24 PM   #6
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I didn't think candi syrup was carmelized. Isn't the color from maillard reactions?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:48 PM   #7
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I've made invert sugar a few times. Boil it in water with citric acid (even lime juice will suffice in a pinch) for several hours while you brew and add it to the wort late in the boil.

I can tell you from the book "Brew Like a Monk" that the Trappist recipes do call for a dark syrup and not the rock candi sugar you hear about. In 1978 Dave Line came up with a recipe for what appears to be a Chimay Red clone. Due to the ingredients available at the time, he found best luck using brown sugar and honey in the boil, FWIW. Granted we're nearly 40 years later now.

Also from BLoM: Rochefort uses (in addition to plain sucrose) a dark sugar that while it translates to "brown sugar" isn't what you think. Candico in Antwerp produces the "sonade brune" and describes it as "granulated crystals obtained from cooling down strongly concentrated sucrose-solutions boiled at very high tmperatures"...sounds like invert to me.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StMarcos View Post
I didn't think candi syrup was carmelized. Isn't the color from maillard reactions?
Maillard reactions require amino acids.

Candi syrup is carmelized sugar with some citric acid.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candisyrup.com
D-180 is our premium extra dark Belgian Candi Syrup. It has the unmistakable flavors of fresh ground coffee, dark fruit, and toasted bread. D-180 is the basis for delicious dark high gravity Ale's like Westvleteren 12, Rochefort 10, and many others. When you consider brewing specialty ales like these, consider the more authentic end result, superior flavor, darker color, and excellent fermentability of D-180.
Contents: Beet sugar, Date sugar, water.

Specifications: SRM - 180, PPG - 1.032

http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistertipsy View Post



contents: Beet sugar, date sugar, water.

specifications: Srm - 180, ppg - 1.032

http://www.candisyrup.com/products.html
i love that stuff!


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