Syracuse, ny - round 7 group grain buy

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Also thinking of combining my lagering fridge with my kegorator to help save energy. Thinking about getting a large chest freezer and making it into a keezer w/ 5 taps. I'd like to get something to store 10-12 kegs, any idea how big of a freezer I'd need? 14cu? 19cu? 24cu?
 
Happen to have a copy of this chart? I always make a 1L starter from my stored slury but sounds like I might not need to.

Also you really trust distilled water? I boil water on the stove in a flask and cool but its a PITA for washing yeast.

I have a copy in excel that I could get over to you.

I used to boil like crazy and do a starter, etc. Then I stopped with that malarkey (have been doing it like this for about a year now with no issues). If I go through the PITA of washing the yeast, my reward is no starters and instant access on brew day. That is unless of course I am using a new yeast, or I decided to restart a 1056/WLP001 after it has seen a few generations. I usually go 3-4 generations.

Once I get say 6-8 jars of washed yeast with 1/2 nich or less compacted in the bottom, I pour off the distilled water and combine all the yeast into one mason jar. Top with distilled water , then let it compact again in the refridge. This method works great and allows me to have a lot of strains on demand (ready to direct pitch) by using WAY less space in my refridge (that was the reason I tried this method).
 
Just emailed you a copy.

My assumptions are listed but let me know if you have questions.
Assumption: 1 liter starter makes 150 Billions cells from 1 vial
20 billion cells per gram if 100 percent viable.
I Used 80-90% (x.17)

The chart works REALLY well. Loosely based off mr malty and other resources for pitch rates. Also, if the viability seems low, just slightly over pitch (year old yeast).
 
Cidah could you email me a copy?

I too wash my yeast. Right now I have a cal ale on the 9th gen with no noticeable off favors.
 
I have a copy in excel that I could get over to you.

I used to boil like crazy and do a starter, etc. Then I stopped with that malarkey (have been doing it like this for about a year now with no issues). If I go through the PITA of washing the yeast, my reward is no starters and instant access on brew day. That is unless of course I am using a new yeast, or I decided to restart a 1056/WLP001 after it has seen a few generations. I usually go 3-4 generations.

Once I get say 6-8 jars of washed yeast with 1/2 nich or less compacted in the bottom, I pour off the distilled water and combine all the yeast into one mason jar. Top with distilled water , then let it compact again in the refridge. This method works great and allows me to have a lot of strains on demand (ready to direct pitch) by using WAY less space in my refridge (that was the reason I tried this method).

How do you estimate the amount of cells you have?
 
mparsons and bellinmi88 - no problem - I will try to dig up your emails from the buy and send a copy over. The sheet is set up for 11g batches, but you can adjust for what you need (it ain't rocket science :D).

jbsengineer - My sheet offers an estimate of billions of yeast cells by a gram weight of yeast slurry. That is the main difference in it. All the other calculators offer cells etc. by a factor of starters and packets/ vials. With this sheet I have been able to estimate how much gram weight of yeast slurry to use from my mason jar full of slurry without making a starter.
 
Also thinking of combining my lagering fridge with my kegorator to help save energy. Thinking about getting a large chest freezer and making it into a keezer w/ 5 taps. I'd like to get something to store 10-12 kegs, any idea how big of a freezer I'd need? 14cu? 19cu? 24cu?

10x10 Walk in. :) (Just dreaming. But, I have an upstairs refrigerator half full of washed yeast, a basement refrigerator used as a fermentation chamber, a basement upright freezer half full of hops and frozen bottles (used for keg->bottle), and another small refrigerator that was used as a keggerator but I use just as a heated fermentation chamber since the compressor broke.) I also have a keezer upstairs (the GE 7.0Cu ft) which I use to hold my serving kegs.

Maybe I need the multi-zone gizmo that Cidah is talking about! :)
 
How do you estimate the amount of cells you have?

I estimated by determining the gram weight of slurry needed with the following assumptions:

Assumption: 1 liter starter makes 150 Billions cells from 1 vial
20 billion cells per gram if 100 percent viable.
I Used 80-90% (x.17)

So my sheet allows me to determine starter size base on 1 vial of yeast, etc (just like a mr malty or like jbsengineers link, etc.). So that part is not new. The new part is the gram weight of the slurry.

So I have it set up based on an estimated percentage of viability of the yeast (from what I have read) and by gravity of the brew. For a lager I typically double the pitching rate posted (or more if I have it).

when money frees up I do plan on making my own walk in cooler out of an AC unit. It will be for food and brew storage.
 
10x10 Walk in. :) (Just dreaming. But, I have an upstairs refrigerator half full of washed yeast, a basement refrigerator used as a fermentation chamber, a basement upright freezer half full of hops and frozen bottles (used for keg->bottle), and another small refrigerator that was used as a keggerator but I use just as a heated fermentation chamber since the compressor broke.) I also have a keezer upstairs (the GE 7.0Cu ft) which I use to hold my serving kegs.

Maybe I need the multi-zone gizmo that Cidah is talking about! :)

I am telling you it is really cool (pun intended). 5K btu air conditioner with the cooling coils bent out and sitting in glycol in a cooler. Then a pond pump that recirculates the glycol around sankeys that are wrapped in 60ft of copper, and then that is insulated.

It is just very, very slick. Probably you are looking at a stack of cash to get there though... :(
 
That's where I start to get concerned about being off on estimate.

How do you technically weigh the slurry? Do you weigh the entire mason jar, with the water and slurry? Or do you weigh it between pooring the water off the slurry and moving it to another vessel?

I'd be interested in your sheet. I'll send you my email. Thanks.
 
I am telling you it is really cool (pun intended). 5K btu air conditioner with the cooling coils bent out and sitting in glycol in a cooler. Then a pond pump that recirculates the glycol around sankeys that are wrapped in 60ft of copper, and then that is insulated.

It is just very, very slick. Probably you are looking at a stack of cash to get there though... :(

That's awesome/insane/neat. Do you have a build page or some photos to look at? :rockin:
 
That's where I start to get concerned about being off on estimate.

How do you technically weigh the slurry? Do you weigh the entire mason jar, with the water and slurry? Or do you weigh it between pooring the water off the slurry and moving it to another vessel?

I'd be interested in your sheet. I'll send you my email. Thanks.

I pour off the water from the top of the yeast, spoon the yeast off into a clean mason jar zeroed on my scale. Then I top up the yeast jar with distilled, cap and put back in the refridge for next time.

It might not be 100 percent accurate but it doesn't have to be, any yeast pitching at Hber level is an estimate. More importantly, it works IME.

If you are a little high it won't hurt you, or a little low (might just be a little slow to start up).

If the yeast is super old, I will tend to go a little higher than the estimate based on perceived lower viability.
 
That's awesome/insane/neat. Do you have a build page or some photos to look at? :rockin:

it was in a bYO project magazine, unfortunately I don't have any pics. However that magazine gives full build info and parts list.
 
I pour off the water from the top of the yeast, spoon the yeast off into a clean mason jar zeroed on my scale. Then I top up the yeast jar with distilled, cap and put back in the refridge for next time.

It might not be 100 percent accurate but it doesn't have to be, any yeast pitching at Hber level is an estimate. More importantly, it works IME.

If you are a little high it won't hurt you, or a little low (might just be a little slow to start up).

If the yeast is super old, I will tend to go a little higher than the estimate based on perceived lower viability.

Interesting, I'm going to have to try this! Time to buy another fridge, :).
 
Interesting, I'm going to have to try this! Time to buy another fridge, :).

Ha!

The plus side to doing it like this is you end up with single mason jars with a crap load of yeast for several batches (saves space because you only need one jar per yeast type. When you run low, you simply wash the next batches yeast and start over with that.

I used to have 5-7 mason jars per yeast type in my refridge after washing my 11G batches (each quart jar only have .5 inch or so of yeast in it). After a while I started to think... this is crazy. Consolidating them was one of the best things I have ever done to manage my yeast stores.

Since I cycle them out and restart every 3-4 generations (at least 20+ 11G batches per 1 yeast vial), I will always have low chance of infection, and still save a boat load of $$ on yeast.
 
I just began trying to wash and reuse yeast.

I harvested batch of WLP001 out of an Ordinary Bitter about 1 month and a half ago. The first batch I used it on was an IPA that I just kegged last week.

Tastes like a solid piece of BubbleGum. Bazooka Joe is I am not mistaken.

Which I understand is a symptom from too high fermentation temps, but that was not the case. I had that batch in my ferm chamber at 65 the whole time, same as the previous several batches and there was no issues with them.

I am guessing the yeast got stressed somehow in my process.

So I am dumping all the current harvested yeast I have and starting with a whole new process.

So I might try your method out Cidah.
 
First off - that sucks! I like bazooka Joe for about the first 4 chews until it turns into a rock, but not in my beer.

Second off, I have beat up a lot of 1056/001 with high gravity IPAs, etc. with no ill effect on washing and reusing or getting off flavors. I assume you let this IPA age properly etc? If you severely underpitched I suppose that could have affected the beer too. But man I never had issues with that strain

Anybody else have that problem?


I should also say I used to sterilize everything for yeast. Nowadays I simply run them through the dishwasher and use them. I know I am tempting fate here.... but the last year has had no problems...
 
I don't think I under pitched. I even made a starter out of the harvested yeast a few days before pitching.

I may have pitched a little warm, but couldn't have been higher than the low 70s.

The IPA is aging now. But this was a very strong off flavor. It buried the hops completely. It tasted like liquid bubblegum.

Which strangely enough was not disgusting. But it certainly was not the IPA I made.
 
Did you aerate well? I know under aerating can cause increased in phenols.

Are you 100% sure you were at 65F the whole time?

What was your pitching rate/gravity of the IPA? - I am sure you have that committed to memory haha :D
 
Yeah, I am only using the shake method, but I cap the carboy with a solid bung and rock the crap out of it for a good 5 min popping the bung off every min or to let pressure equalize.

Same method I have always used.

And oxygen stone is on my list of next upgrades since it will provide better and more consistent oxygen.
 
Yeah, I am only using the shake method, but I cap the carboy with a solid bung and rock the crap out of it for a good 5 min popping the bung off every min or to let pressure equalize.

Same method I have always used.

And oxygen stone is on my list of next upgrades since it will provide better and more consistent oxygen.

the shake is fine IMO - has been proven to work just as well as the stone (one less point of contamination too). I just let the pump splash the heck out of the wort as I pump it into the carboy. No problems doing that with no shake.


weird
 
From what I have read the flavor may drop out after a while.

If not I am going to call it a BubbleGum Malt Beverage and say it was an experiment.

Surprisingly it was not disgusting. I could drink a pint or two of it. Of course I only made it through half a pint when I first tapped it but that was only because I wanted a real beer.

I will let you know if there are any new developments with it.
 
the shake is fine IMO - has been proven to work just as well as the stone (one less point of contamination too). I just let the pump splash the heck out of the wort as I pump it into the carboy. No problems doing that with no shake.


weird

I had considered the fact that it was one thing to sanitize and I thought about just buying a bottle of oxygen and basically just filling the carboy with it while I racked into it then shaking. So it was getting pure clean oxygen but I didn't have to use a stone.

Couldn't really find anything on the forums about it though.
 
Haha - just think of it has a IPA-weizen (hybrid style in the BJCP guidelines). Excellent job getting the banana esters out of the yeast strain :D
 
Cidah, are you washing yeast off the primary or secondary?

I have a pump, but haven't used it lately. To get enough aeration it needed to run 20+ minutes and it would foam the beer so much that it would be more trouble than it was worth. The last couple batches I have used a wine aerorator attached to my drill and that whips it up really well in a minute or two.
 
I primary for 3 weeks for most beers (lagers I do a drest so that depends on their speed of ferment).

After 3 weeks I rack off the brew and then for my case (11G batch):
1. I add 6 quarts distilled water. Shake up and let sit 20 minutes
2. poor of the top from the sludge into a another container. Let sit 20 minutes
3. Pour off into yet another container. Let sit 20 minutes
4. pour into 5-7 quart mason jars, lid them and into the refridge.
5. in a couple days I go back, pour off the water to leave the compacted yeast and consolidate all of them into one quart container. Top with distilled and that is it.

I obviously try to do this when I am brewing, etc., because while it takes a while there is little work, mostly waiting.
 
I primary for 3 weeks for most beers (lagers I do a drest so that depends on their speed of ferment).

After 3 weeks I rack off the brew and then for my case (11G batch):
1. I add 6 quarts distilled water. Shake up and let sit 20 minutes
2. poor of the top from the sludge into a another container. Let sit 20 minutes
3. Pour off into yet another container. Let sit 20 minutes
4. pour into 5-7 quart mason jars, lid them and into the refridge.
5. in a couple days I go back, pour off the water to leave the compacted yeast and consolidate all of them into one quart container. Top with distilled and that is it.

I obviously try to do this when I am brewing, etc., because while it takes a while there is little work, mostly waiting.

Hmm. I've been boiling water to sterilize it, which takes considerably longer as I have to eat the mason jars + water, do the 15 minute boil, and let it cool long enough (hours) in order to get the water near room temperature.

Never had any issues with contamination?
 
Hmm. I've been boiling water to sterilize it, which takes considerably longer as I have to eat the mason jars + water, do the 15 minute boil, and let it cool long enough (hours) in order to get the water near room temperature.

Never had any issues with contamination?

I used to do all that, then I said... I am tired. haha This saves considerable time and no issues at all with infection since I started.

I sometimes toss them in sani, but if straight from the dishwasher I use them with no sani.

not like me to be unorthodox, but the whole procedure was just taking too much time and it was all on me to do it (cobrewer wasn't around). So I figured I would give it a try. I figured... back in the day people didn't have starsan.

So far... so good.
 
I used to do all that, then I said... I am tired. haha This saves considerable time and no issues at all with infection since I started.

I sometimes toss them in sani, but if straight from the dishwasher I use them with no sani.

not like me to be unorthodox, but the whole procedure was just taking too much time and it was all on me to do it (cobrewer wasn't around). So I figured I would give it a try. I figured... back in the day people didn't have starsan.

So far... so good.

I think I just found a secondary use for my kids bottle sterilizer!
 
Wow in any event...I was totally ready to brew tomorrow and was gong to weigh out my grains and hops tonight. Just went down to my basement and realized my wife stole the scale (she's out of town). Guess I gotta wait. Ugh...
 
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