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Old 05-22-2007, 11:01 PM   #1
deharris
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Apr 2007
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A buddy and I are currently brewing a hefeweizen and another user suggested that we substitute pre-yeasted wort for priming sugar, a method he called the gyle or krausening technique. This seems like an interesting idea, but I wonder about the science/benefits. So...

1) How do you determine the amount of wort to save to get the right amount of carbonation (and avoid exploding bottles!!!)?

2) Does this have an effect on taste/properties of the beer? The use who recommended I try this said it would help keep my yeast in suspension longer though I don't understand why...

Any help would be appreciated!

 
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Old 05-22-2007, 11:48 PM   #2
homebrewer_99
 
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That was probably me.

I am very satisfied with the yeast staying in suspension longer.

The keg's been in the fridge for a week or so and it's still cloudy and delicious!

As for the amount of gyle, there's a calculation in one of the brew books. I also found a chart on the net. I don't remember the address, but search for "gyle".
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:21 AM   #3
AdIn
 
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Take a look here http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9685
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:58 PM   #4
DublOh7
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Oct 2006
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Reading, reading, trying to eventually learn something...

So, in the formula for gyle/krausening,

Quarts of gyle = (12 x gallons of wort) / (specific gravity - 1)(1000),

the denominator will get larger with a "big" beer. This leads to a smaller number of quarts of gyle.

Question: Does that sound right? With a HUGE beer, you put in less gyle to carbonate it, and with a small beer, you throw in lots of active yeast and sugars?
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:10 PM   #5
poetic_entropy
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Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DublOh7
Reading, reading, trying to eventually learn something...

So, in the formula for gyle/krausening,

Quarts of gyle = (12 x gallons of wort) / (specific gravity - 1)(1000),

the denominator will get larger with a "big" beer. This leads to a smaller number of quarts of gyle.

Question: Does that sound right? With a HUGE beer, you put in less gyle to carbonate it, and with a small beer, you throw in lots of active yeast and sugars?

The specific gravity you mention is the sp grav of the gyle not the beer, I believe.
Good luck, basically you are substituting dme already in solution instead of powder.

 
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Old 06-26-2007, 04:39 PM   #6
cheezydemon
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Jun 2007
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I will make the leap that you have a high gravity beer that is either so high in alcohol that just new yeast and priming won't work, or has been in the secondary long enough that you are concerned about yeast still viable.
Based on that, I will share that I bottled a batch about a month ago that was very high og (1.1+) and that I added yeast to the priming solution (only 1/4 cup sugar) and let them go at it for about an hour before putting it into the bottling bucket and bottling.
The reason for less priming sugar with this high gravity brew(and most) is the longer conditioning in the bottle time anticipated. I cracked one this past weekend and it had perfect carbonation. Not necessarilly good since I plan to age it for 4 more months, but we will see! Hoped that this might help a little!

 
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:47 PM   #7
CBBaron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezydemon
I will make the leap that you have a high gravity beer that is either so high in alcohol that just new yeast and priming won't work, or has been in the secondary long enough that you are concerned about yeast still viable.
Based on that, I will share that I bottled a batch about a month ago that was very high og (1.1+) and that I added yeast to the priming solution (only 1/4 cup sugar) and let them go at it for about an hour before putting it into the bottling bucket and bottling.
The reason for less priming sugar with this high gravity brew(and most) is the longer conditioning in the bottle time anticipated. I cracked one this past weekend and it had perfect carbonation. Not necessarilly good since I plan to age it for 4 more months, but we will see! Hoped that this might help a little!
I'm trying to understand your logic and technique here. Isn't the carbonation amount only affected by the amount of sugar fermented, not by the time the beer ages? I guessing by using gyle you had very active yeast that ate the sugar rapidly and your beer will not carbonate any more than it has. What I don't understand is why 1/4 cup of sugar would be sufficient to carbonate a 5gal batch? Perhaps the yeast you added was a little more effective in eating the less fermentable sugar in your high gravity BW?
Still I like your technique and I will consider it when I make a really big beer in the future.
Craig

 
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Old 06-26-2007, 08:09 PM   #8
East Mountain Brewer
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In the Wheat beer style series book by Eric Warner, He says this is the traditional way to make authentic bottle conditioned Hefe'. The wort retained is called spiese and is added at bottling time. I did this several years ago and had great results. I saved a growler of wort in the fridge until bottling and added it to the batch. I doubt there is anything more to this than tradition. I have seen no scientific explaination and doubt one exists. From a practical standpoint, a pro hefe brewery will have fresh wort daily but probably no raw sugar so it is convenient for them. A homebrewer on the other hand has to ensure the wort remains clean and unfermented until bottling day so I don't see the need. CO2 is CO2 is CO2.


 
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Old 07-04-2007, 06:26 PM   #9
cheezydemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBBaron
I'm trying to understand your logic and technique here. Isn't the carbonation amount only affected by the amount of sugar fermented, not by the time the beer ages? I guessing by using gyle you had very active yeast that ate the sugar rapidly and your beer will not carbonate any more than it has. What I don't understand is why 1/4 cup of sugar would be sufficient to carbonate a 5gal batch? Perhaps the yeast you added was a little more effective in eating the less fermentable sugar in your high gravity BW?
Still I like your technique and I will consider it when I make a really big beer in the future.
Craig
The high gravity Imperial Stout I was brewing did not need a ton of CO2 to be traditional to the style, also, over long conditioning in the bottle, small amounts of CO2 do develop over time. Theoretically, if you left a brew in the bottle long enough, you would not need any priming sugar.

Also, aggressive or not, yeast has a threshhold as far as alcohol tolerance. If you have a high FG, odds are that your yeast has hit that threshhold(am I spelling that right??) and may not do any more if you dump a quart of priming sugar in.

....What was your question?? Just kidding, but let me know if we are on the same page here. Thanks.

 
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