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Old 02-04-2012, 12:33 AM   #1
Chub
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Aug 2009
Chicago
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So I brewed a Saison, 1.050, with 3711. When gravity hit 1.020, I transferred to secondary and added a pack of Brett B. It's been a week. I am about to drink an Orval and a Jolly Pumpkin. Should I throw the dregs in as well? Any drawbacks? Any advice/wisdom would be appreciated. This is my first sour.

 
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:26 AM   #2
badlee
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That sounds like the kind of thing I would do given the chance!

 
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Old 02-04-2012, 01:42 AM   #3
WolvinMaine
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Go for it, but with 3711 as your primary, you may not get that much character. That is a very high attenuating strain, so it will not leave much food for the other yeast and bugs, but it certainly would be fun to see what you get.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:21 AM   #4
Chub
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Aug 2009
Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolvinMaine
Go for it, but with 3711 as your primary, you may not get that much character. That is a very high attenuating strain, so it will not leave much food for the other yeast and bugs, but it certainly would be fun to see what you get.
I didn't use a starter for the 3711, and after 7 days it only got down to 1.020 when I racked it out of primary and off the yeast. (I needed the cake for a 15g Saison) I thought maybe the under pitch would slow the 3711 down a touch and give the Brett a chance to chomp away. Normally, I use a starter for 3711 and it hits single digits within a week.

 
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:02 AM   #5
Calder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chub View Post
I didn't use a starter for the 3711, and after 7 days it only got down to 1.020 when I racked it out of primary and off the yeast. (I needed the cake for a 15g Saison) I thought maybe the under pitch would slow the 3711 down a touch and give the Brett a chance to chomp away. Normally, I use a starter for 3711 and it hits single digits within a week.
If the 3711 hadn't finished (and it seems it didn't), then you just racked off all the higher attenuating cells (still in suspension) and left all the low attenuating cells in the cake.

In essence by racking before the beer finished, you are selecting the lower attenuating yeast cells for your next beer. The result could be your next beer does not attenuate as much as you want it to.

This is why they do not recommend re-using yeast more than a few times, because every time you brew/ferment, you are preferentially selecting certain characteristics of the yeast (by temperature, by when you take it, buy the OG, by how long it is in the beer, and by any of the many other variables that go into a beer).

 
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #6
suprchunk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post

This is why they do not recommend re-using yeast more than a few times, because every time you brew/ferment, you are preferentially selecting certain characteristics of the yeast (by temperature, by when you take it, buy the OG, by how long it is in the beer, and by any of the many other variables that go into a beer).
This is why they don't recommend using yeast from a SECONDARY. The reason for not using it in the manner you are suggesting is because of mutation.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:21 PM   #7
Chub
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Aug 2009
Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
If the 3711 hadn't finished (and it seems it didn't), then you just racked off all the higher attenuating cells (still in suspension) and left all the low attenuating cells in the cake.

In essence by racking before the beer finished, you are selecting the lower attenuating yeast cells for your next beer. The result could be your next beer does not attenuate as much as you want it to.

This is why they do not recommend re-using yeast more than a few times, because every time you brew/ferment, you are preferentially selecting certain characteristics of the yeast (by temperature, by when you take it, buy the OG, by how long it is in the beer, and by any of the many other variables that go into a beer).
I understand some of this, and usually let the primary finish, but I rolled the dice. 15g of Saison is already at 1.007 after 10 days, from 1.062.

 
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:52 PM   #8
dcp27
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Jan 2010
Medford, MA
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the orval dregs will just add more brett, but the jolly pumpkin dregs will add some brett, lacto & pedio. brett adds funk not sour, so if you want sour then add the JP dregs

 
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:59 PM   #9
corkybstewart
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Add them all, mix it up and enjoy the beer.

 
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:58 PM   #10
Chub
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Aug 2009
Chicago
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Originally Posted by corkybstewart View Post
Add them all, mix it up and enjoy the beer.
This is essentially what I did. The wait is on... Thanks for all the advice.

 
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