Specialty IPA: Black IPA Wandering Goth CDA v. 2

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Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
7,917
Reaction score
1,092
Location
Minneapolis
Recipe Type
Partial Mash
Yeast
s-05
Yeast Starter
no
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
used ~15 gms rehydrated
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.25
Original Gravity
1.066
Final Gravity
1.015
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
91 (rager)
Color
27 Lovibond
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
14 @ 62
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
7 @ 68
Additional Fermentation
none
Tasting Notes
a dark, mildly roasty, very hoppy beer. as good as many commercial examples.
This recipe is written for BIAB partial mash. for an extract version, simply replace the 2-row with extra light malt extract. i'll be posting a blog later today (or very soon) on this particular style of beer, i have some thoughts and ideas about this style and particular recipe. i feel that this is a very solid example of this style of beer, it's a regular in my house and i plan to start entering into any competition that accepts the style.

grains:
5.25 #'s American 2-row
.75 #'s Crystal 10L
.7 #'s Carafa II (special/dehusked/debittered)
.6 #'s Special Roast

mash in 2.3 gal of water at ~150 degrees for 60 minutes.
heat another 2.3 gal of sparge water to 192 for 'dunk' sparging at 169 degrees. dunk grain bag, gently stir and sit covered for ~10 mins. combine wort in brew kettle, add additional water to reach pre boil volume. add extract and bring to a boil.

extract:
3.5 #'s extra light DME (i prefer Munton's DME)

hops:
1 oz magnum pellets 13.1% AA @ 60 min (53 IBU) (horizon pellets will work great here, too)
.8 oz amarillo pellets 8.6 % AA @ 30 min (16 IBU)
.6 oz simcoe pellets 12.2% AA @ 10 min (6 IBU)
.8 oz amarillo pellets 8.6% AA @ 10 min (6 IBU)
.6 oz simcoe pellets 12.2% AA @ 0 min (5 IBU)
.8 oz amarillo pellets 8.6% AA @ 0 min (5 IBU)

dry hop:
1 oz amarillo whole hops for 7 days
.67 oz simcoe whole hops for 7 days

after the boil, allow the flameout addition to steep for ~10 minutes and then chill wort quickly to 62 degrees. aerate and pitch ~15 gms (1 and 1/2 packets) of rehydrated s-05.
ferment at ~62 degrees for two weeks or until FG is reached and stable. i prefer to then transfer to a secondary carboy for the dry hopping, but it can surely be done in primary. dry hop (preferably with whole hops) for 7 days. after dry hopping, package as desired and carbonate to 1.5-2 volumes of co2. this beer is best consumed soon after it conditions to preserve the hops aroma.

i've brewed this a few times in the last year and find it to be a very enjoyable beer. it's around 7% abv, so not the ideal 'session' brew, but definitely a very (deceptively) drinkable example of Cascadian Dark Ale. it's one of the more popular home-brews i make, and seldom lasts very long in my house. i hope anyone who brews this ale enjoys it as much as i do. any comments and questions are much appreciated, feel free to PM me with anything you have.

Dan

edit: i realized that simcoe and amarillo hops can be more difficult to get sometimes and at some places. i like freshops.com as an online source for hops.

here's the blog i wrote on the style. there's some good tips for putting together your own, amazing Cascadian Dark recipe. or you could just brew my recipe, i doubt you'll be let down. :mug:

happy brewing!

HPIM0634.jpg
 
NordeastBrewer77,

I have been researching a few CDA recipes and this one caught my attention. I am not too familiar with this style, and would like to give it a shot as I think they are quite interesting ingredient wise. After reviewing your recipe, I think I will stick with your base recipe, but want to add a slight chocolate note to offset the slight roast character that you noted in your version. I like the hop schedule and, although I have never used simcoe or amarillo, I will take your word for it (now I just have to find some amarillo, as I have a source for simcoe here in the next few weeks...)! It appears that you followed the style guidelines from the BJCP (I don't believe the style has been formally "accepted" yet, but next time the styles are re-evaluated it should be added, correct?).

Anyways, I was hoping you could take a look. Only made a couple changes, including the chocolate malt and the yeast preference (I really need to use the smack pack and get it going, gets less viable by the day). Also, do you think that it is enough chocolate malt or not enough. Again, just want enough to barely show, as I understand the hops are the main attraction, but enough to add that extra depth to the malt character.

Here it is; let me know what you think. It is converted to all-grain:



CDA All Grain

5.5 Gallons
1.072 OG
1.016 FG
71 IBU (Tinseth)
32 Lovibond;
86% Efficiency
7.4% ABV
BU:GU 0.98

10.5 lbs 2 row US
0.75 lb Crystal 10L
0.7 lb Carafa II
0.6 lb Special Roast
0.25 lb Chocolate

Mash:

Dough in with 3.8 gallons of 166 degree water for 60 minutes (152 degree mash temp). Double batch sparge with 2.5 gallons of 177 degree water each.

Boil:

60 min. 1.25 oz Magnum (13.1%)
30 min. 0.9 oz Amarillo (8.6%)
10 min. 0.6 oz Simcoe (12.2%)
10 min. 0.8 oz Amarillo (8.6%)
0 min. 0.7 oz Simcoe (12.2%)
0 min. 0.9 oz Amarillo (8.6%)

Yeast:

Pitch starter of Wyeast 1764PC - ROGUE Pacman yeast (276 billion cells).

Ferment:

Primary ferment at 62 degrees for 14 days then transfer to secondary.

Dry hop with:
1 oz Amarillo (8.6%)
0.7 oz Simcoe (12.2%)

Dry hop and leave in secondary for 14 days. Bottle and age for at least 14 days/keg.
 
i think that looks like a really solid CDA, man! it'll be just a touch roastier, but that works, your bitterness unit to gravity point ratio is pretty similar, i think i was in the low .80's. if you were to go more on the chocolate, you can always cut back on the Carafa II to keep the balance the same. i also like the pacman yeast as a choice, you really just want to use a good attenuating, clean strain. you want a crisp, dry finish to the beer.

thanks for reminding me that the simcoe and amarillo hops are very popular and tend to be out of stock sometime throughout the year. i like to go to freshops.com to get hops. they seem to be able to keep some varieties around, even when they're harder to find.
i also posted a link in the original message to a write up i did on the style that gives some decent suggestions, including using malts like patent and chocolate. i'll post the Freshops link there too.
 
I'm thinking about trying this one out. Would it be okay to do in a 5 gal boil pot? Haven't upgraded to an 8 yet
 
I'm thinking about trying this one out. Would it be okay to do in a 5 gal boil pot? Haven't upgraded to an 8 yet

sure, you can do a partial boil. the first few times i brewed this it was a partial boil. i'd say boil around 3 gal, so you have the headspace and i'd recommend adding the extract late or at flameout if you cut the boil size, that way you limit the darkening that happens to extract in a small boil and it may help with hops utilization. :mug:
 
Dan,

Been tweaking this again based on what is available to me from the local brew shop. Gonna be visiting a buddy of mine from across the state towards the end of this month, and so we have decided to brew 11 gallons of this at that time. I am still quite new at trying to figure out what malts/hops/recipe changes produce what outcome, so bear with me.

My two changes include:

It appears that I can only get Carafa I from the brewshop locally, so I was wondering how that would change things? I may be able to get the Carafa II across the state, so checking that out too. Maybe the Carafa I would be slightly less roasty, slightly lighter on the overall color? I have never used this type of malt, so not really sure what to expect.

I was thinking of using centennial instead of amarillo hops, just due to the availability of them vs the amarillo. I see that BYO states that centennial is a possible substitution, and I am quite familiar with that particular hop. Having never used these hops (amarillo) before, I was wondering what your opinion on this change would be? I may still order the amarillo, but will see as I get this recipe a little more dialed in.

Otherwise the overall recipe remains relatively the same:

CDA All Grain

5.5 Gallons
1.073 OG
1.016 FG
72 IBU (Tinseth)
29 Lovibond;
86% Efficiency
7.4% ABV
BU:GU 0.98

10.5 lbs 2 row US
0.75 lb Crystal 10L
0.7 lb Carafa I
0.6 lb Special Roast
0.35 lb Chocolate

Mash:

Dough in with 4.0 gallons of 164 degree water for 60 minutes (150 degree mash temp). Double batch sparge with 2.45 gallons of 179 degree water each.

Boil:

60 min. 1.25 oz Magnum (13.1%)
30 min. 0.9 oz Centennial (9.1%)
10 min. 0.6 oz Simcoe (12.2%)
10 min. 0.8 oz Centennial (9.1%)
0 min. 0.7 oz Simcoe (12.2%)
0 min. 0.9 oz Centennial (9.1%)

Yeast:

Pitch starter of Wyeast 1764PC - ROGUE Pacman yeast (276 billion cells).

Ferment:

Primary ferment at 62 degrees for 14 days then transfer to secondary.

Dry hop with:
1 oz Centennial (9.1%)
0.7 oz Simcoe (12.2%)

Dry hop and leave in secondary for 14 days. Bottle and age for at least 14 days/keg.

Let me know what you think, be very interested to hear what your thoughts are regarding the changes.

Thanks,
Ryan
 
i've never used carafa I, but i believe you're right, the I is the lightest and the III is the darkest. just be sure to use the 'special'/'debittered'/'dehusked' as it'll eliminate some of the stronger roast flavors. i think the carafa I should be fine, especially with the chocolate you're adding. as far as the hops go, i love centennial and it's my wife's favorite. i've used them in this recipe, same as you, in place of the amarillo and it was very nice. amarillo happens to be one of my favorites, so i go with that one usually.
that's awesome that you guys are gonna brew up 11 gal of this! definitely keep the thread updated, i'm psyched to hear how this beer turns out for others that brew it. :mug:
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
sure, you can do a partial boil. the first few times i brewed this it was a partial boil. i'd say boil around 3 gal, so you have the headspace and i'd recommend adding the extract late or at flameout if you cut the boil size, that way you limit the darkening that happens to extract in a small boil and it may help with hops utilization. :mug:

So 1.5 gal for the mash and then another 1.5 for the sparge? Do you remember the lbs of grain from when you did this as a partial?
 
Will do man. I was pretty sure that those changes would not be a problem. I think I am just starting to understand some of the ways that the malts/hops interact with eachother... I think I am gonna stick with Carafa I and the centennial hops. Saves me some cash on shipping anyways, not that it would be that big of a deal. Also sets me up to have room for experimentation with the next batch! Yeah, 11 gallons of this, split up should be freaking awesome!

Ryan M.
 
So 1.5 gal for the mash and then another 1.5 for the sparge? Do you remember the lbs of grain from when you did this as a partial?

The partial mash (and extract version) are the very first post of the page. I converted his numbers into an all grain version since I dont do BIAB/partial mash.

Let us know how it turns out when you go for it!

Ryan M.

EDIT: Got to thinking. Are you doing extract only, extract with specialty grains, or partial mash? Guess that question needs to be answered first... Sorry, get a little ahead of myself sometimes...
 
I am doing a partial mash. I only have a 5 gal boil pot though. So it was suggested I do a 3 gal partial boil. I was wondering about the conversion of water used during the partial mash and how much grains for this change.
 
So 1.5 gal for the mash and then another 1.5 for the sparge? Do you remember the lbs of grain from when you did this as a partial?

the grain weight was the same as posted. the recipe's been a partial mash for me since i wrote it, the first few times i brewed it, i was using a 5 gal kettle and boiled 3-3.5 gal, topping up to 5.25 in the fermenter. the las couple times i brewed it, i used my 7.5 gal kettle and did a full boil.
i generally use a 1.25 qt/lb, water/grist ratio. i have 2.3 gal for the strike water, and in a partial boil, i'd sparge with 1.5-2 gal. depending on the absorption you get, that should leave you with ~ 3-3.5 gal in the kettle. with a partial boil, you may need to cut back the sparge water a tad, so you don't end up with too much in the kettle. the only difference between me doing this as a partial boil instead of a full boil was that in the partial boil i added the extract at flameout and let it dissolve as the flameout hops steeped. :mug:
 
I guess I misunderstood the question... Well, to be honest with you, I don't know exactly how that works... I apologize and will leave you in more capable hands of answering the question!
 
Awesome. Thanks a lot for the great info. This is going to be my first partial mash so I'm excited! I'll give you an update when brew day is upon us!
 
Awesome. Thanks a lot for the great info. This is going to be my first partial mash so I'm excited! I'll give you an update when brew day is upon us!

awesome! i'd love to hear how it goes for ya. and congrats on getting into mashing, you won't regret it, man. once ya get the hang of it, it'll be just as easy as extract, and you get more influence over the beer and you get to experience the magic of turning starch to sugars in the mash. :mug:

i'm drinking a pint of this brew as i type this, it's a great beer and i hope everyone who brews it enjoys it as much as we do. it's always a hit here, we actually served a keg of the first version of this recipe at our wedding party. it floated quite early one! :mug:
 
Dan,

Okay, I am gonna run a couple more ideas past you here. I have been researching, again. I am only changing the grain bill around a bit, everything else remains the same as in my previous post. I am tweaking and messing around, researching what each grain will do for the beer. I will list what changes I have made and then explain why I think what I do, maybe you will agree or maybe you will convince me that I am a bit off base with the recipe.

Here goes!

10.5 lbs 2 row base
0.75 lbs crystal
0.35 lbs Carafa I
0.35 lbs Special roast
0.35 lbs Roasted Wheat
0.35 lbs chocolate malt

Here is my reasoning behind what I am up to. I want a complex mix of flavors to match the hop characteristics (i.e. piney/citrus) listed in my previous post (i.e. Centennial/Simcoe). I believe that with these small additions, I can obtain a unique malt character without compromising the hop additions. And the quantities just worked out that way, keeps me right at what I wanted for my OG.

The specialty malts are only around 10% of the grain bill. I need the Carafa I for color and roast flavor and the special roast should provide some nutty/toasted flavor. These two grains reduced in quantity should provide me with a slightly less roasted flavor to allow the other specialty grains to come through.

I am hoping that the roasted wheat will provide just a touch of extra body/mouth-feel to the brew. I think that people perceive dark beers as those that are thicker bodied. I want to find a nice balance between the characteristics of an IPA (mashed at 150 degrees) while providing a slight increase in mouth-feel/body to those who are looking for that in a darker beer (i.e. giving increased body to the beer without changing the dry finish associated with an IPA). I hope this makes sense... Beer is all about a persons' perception, and I think by achieving these goals, it will appeal slightly more to everyone. Again, I could be way off base, I am still pretty new at this!

And the chocolate malt, I hope, will provide a slight hint of vanilla while also giving a touch more caramel flavor (In addition to the crystal malt) to balance the roast characteristics associated with the Carafa I/special roast/roasted wheat).

What do you think? In my head, everything sounds really good, but I have not brewed with a couple of the specialty grains and am basing everything I have come up with on my research. My BU:GU is exactly 1, which for a regular IPA is appropriate. Also, I have not changed my hop additions at all as posted above.

Comes in at 31 Lovibond, OG 1.072, FG 1.016 (I think this will be lower... we will see).

Anyways, I know I have rambled on here a bit, but I hope to hear some feedback from you, see what you think. I may just say eff it and brew it to see what happens! I usually like to have a decent idea of how it will turn out, but in this case, I have no idea! I may be putting way to much thought into it also, but I like to plan and be on the ball.

Let me know what you think, and I appreciate your time!

Ryan M.
 
i like it! i've heard of some folks using Midnight Wheat in these beers. i brew an IPA with a touch of white wheat, and it's very nice. wheat should work out well in a CDA. it looks like you'll have some nice malt flavor going on.
as far as the bitterness ratio, anything 1 or over should be a very hop forward beer. for a her like this, i like to load up on the late hops, but i'm an admitted hop head. i think my BU:GU ratio was around 1.1 for this brew, but my software highballs the IBU from flameout adds, so who really knows.
the key to the style seems to be a touch of dark, roast-y flavor and a lot of late hops, and i think your recipe will produce just that. i'm looking forward to hearing how this turns out!
 
Just finished brewing this bad boy. Everything went semi smooth. Info you gave really helped. We shall see what happens in the next 14 days!
 
Changing the name of my adaptation of this for my dog. About 3 hours after I pitched the yeast she passed away. Thought it would be nice to brew this ever year around her death day.
 
Just finished brewing this bad boy. Everything went semi smooth. Info you gave really helped. We shall see what happens in the next 14 days!

sorry to hear about your dog, that really sucks. we have an old dog too, and i'm not at all looking forward to the day.
hope the beer turns out great! we floated a keg of it last week and since then my wife's been bugging me to brew it again, so it looks like it'll be on the list of my next several brews. keep the thread updated on how your's turns out. :mug:
 
Slated to do two batches loosely based off of this recipe (see above). Should be awesome!
 
Okay, brewed this last Saturday. Everything went great, nailed my gravity numbers at 86% efficiency. The Pacman starter worked extremely well with a very short lag time (~5-6 hours). Everything went flawlessly. Brewed this at a buddy's house across the state, so the only potential problem was a little sloshing around on the way (better yeast attenuation...? Hope there really exists a "blanket" of CO2 above my wort). Anyways, happily fermenting in my spare bedroom at 66 degrees.

Cannot wait to see how this turned out. It came out more a very dark brown, not as "black" as I thought it might turn out. Had a few examples of black IPA, including Dogzilla's Black IPA and Stone's Sublimely Self Righteous. Both were fantastic.

Will let you know in a month or so the end result.

Ryan M.
 
Okay, brewed this last Saturday. Everything went great, nailed my gravity numbers at 86% efficiency. The Pacman starter worked extremely well with a very short lag time (~5-6 hours). Everything went flawlessly. Brewed this at a buddy's house across the state, so the only potential problem was a little sloshing around on the way (better yeast attenuation...? Hope there really exists a "blanket" of CO2 above my wort). Anyways, happily fermenting in my spare bedroom at 66 degrees.

Cannot wait to see how this turned out. It came out more a very dark brown, not as "black" as I thought it might turn out. Had a few examples of black IPA, including Dogzilla's Black IPA and Stone's Sublimely Self Righteous. Both were fantastic.

Will let you know in a month or so the end result.

Ryan M.

Awesome! :mug: can't wait to hear about it. as for it looking brown, mine always looks like creamed coffee in the fermenter, but when it drops bright, it'll be dark, almost black, with garnet highlights around the edge of the glass, and you're is a few degrees L darker than mine.

i love the Stone SSR, one of my favorite examples. i'll have to try the Dogzilla. :mug:
 
PGHBrewer said:
Would you recommend cold crashing before racking after the 7 day dry hop?

I don't see much of a point to crash it before you dry hop it. You're just adding more crap to it. Then you'd have to crash it twice! My 2 cents would be to leave it, dry hop it, THEN crash it for a couple days
 
Pulled a gravity sample before racking to secondary to dry hop. 1.016. Nice roasty, slight residual sweetness. Don't really get a big hop punch like I had envisioned, but after the dry hops do their thing, I imagine it will be significantly more perceptible. I think this is gonna be really nice after dry hopped and carbonated!
 
That's what I meant. To do it after the dry hopping

if you dry hop in secondary, you shouldn't need to cold crash it. but if you're dry hopping in primary, i think it's a matter of preference. for me, beers brewed with 05 drop bright after 2-3 weeks, and that's what i use for this beer.

Pulled a gravity sample before racking to secondary to dry hop. 1.016. Nice roasty, slight residual sweetness. Don't really get a big hop punch like I had envisioned, but after the dry hops do their thing, I imagine it will be significantly more perceptible. I think this is gonna be really nice after dry hopped and carbonated!

:rockin: i'm really looking forward to hearing how this beer turns out with the centennial hops. i'm also interested in how the extra ~1/3 # of chocolate malt works, it'll make it roastier for sure, but i think centennial hops seem to stand up to malt flavor better that amarillo (or maybe i'm just crazy). i usually use the rager scale, but when i switch my recipe to tinseth, the BU:GU ratio is 1.02, so pretty much what you got. should be good!! :mug:
 
Well, racked this over to keg today. Just realized that I forgot to let you know that I did find some amarillo, and used that per the original recipe with simcoe. Definitely roasty, a tad sweet (which should clean up nicely post carbonation). Very dark brown, almost black. Thin bodied, quite hoppy, although I would probably increase the bittering and flavor hops if I brew it again, just because I did not get a huge kick in the face of hop flavor (this may change post carbonation - we will see). Otherwise, very excited to see how this plays out in carbonated and aged beer!

Dan, at what age do you think this beer peaked for you? Just curious as to what your thoughts are. I am force carbing so it will be mostly ready by Wednesday for a fishing excursion. Will give an update after carbonated fully.
 
Dan, at what age do you think this beer peaked for you? Just curious as to what your thoughts are. I am force carbing so it will be mostly ready by Wednesday for a fishing excursion. Will give an update after carbonated fully.

i keep my kegerator at ~42 degrees and force carb as well, i'd say this beer tends to peak in a couple, few weeks. unfortunately, it doesn't last much longer than that when i have it, so i can't really say how long it stays in it's prime. :mug:
 
I totally didn't say that quote lol. However I have a week left before I try one of my bottles of this. I'm excited
 
Revive. I got so thirsty reading the recipe and blog that I had to post and refresh this thread. I'm going to brew this when my basement temp gets down to 62* or so. Yum.

nordeast did you happen to get a hold of this-

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=139192&stc=1&d=137548932

I could not believe how good this beer was. I'll be looking for it down the road. Can't rotate picture, so frustrated.

20130802_185635 (1).jpg
 
Yo Nordeast, I brewed your CDA last year and it was perfect! Great receipe. I meant to tell you after I kegged and chugged it.
 
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