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Old 01-20-2012, 07:09 PM   #1
lpdb185
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Sep 2009
Jackson, Mississippi
Posts: 426


i've only just recently started getting my hands on a few (like 3 or 4) saisons. the most recent was Fantome Printemps. it had what i perceived as a tart/lemony/sourness to it at the end. this has me wanting to brew a saison with a similar citrusy sourness. so my question: is it brett yeast or some other particular type of yeast that gives that sour tart finish, or is it a combination of other ingredients such as lacto that i've read about in other posts?



 
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:35 PM   #2
bailiff48
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Aug 2010
Des Moines
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Wyeast 3724 is supposed to lend a little tartness to the beer. I have a Saison fermenting now with it that I hope pulls in some of those characteristics. If the tart/sour flavor was more intense, it is likely the result of some other addition.



 
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:42 PM   #3
wonderbread23
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Apr 2009
Brooklyn
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Fantome definitely has other things going on in it other than brewers yeast. If I wanted a similar effect, I'd ferment with a standard saison yeast (like Wyeast 3724 / 3711) and then I'd pitch the dregs of a couple Fantome bottles after primary fermentation was complete.

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:25 PM   #4
lpdb185
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Sep 2009
Jackson, Mississippi
Posts: 426

i guess i'm showing my ignorance here, but you're saying that the sourness i perceive as something akin to funky lemon juice is somewhat proprietary to Fantome?

the problem is, since i live in mississippi, it's not that often that i get my hands on a bottle of Fantome (or any saisons for that matter). i guess i assumed that it was a more generic thing since i've only had a few different ones (DuPont, Jolly Pumpkin, Brooklyn Sorachi Ace). but if i do get my hands on another Fantome, would it be feasible to step up the dregs of that bottle into a starter and just use that?

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:40 PM   #5
rexbanner
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Nov 2008
DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lpdb185 View Post
i guess i'm showing my ignorance here, but you're saying that the sourness i perceive as something akin to funky lemon juice is somewhat proprietary to Fantome?

the problem is, since i live in mississippi, it's not that often that i get my hands on a bottle of Fantome (or any saisons for that matter). i guess i assumed that it was a more generic thing since i've only had a few different ones (DuPont, Jolly Pumpkin, Brooklyn Sorachi Ace). but if i do get my hands on another Fantome, would it be feasible to step up the dregs of that bottle into a starter and just use that?
Use a saison yeast as your primary and add the dregs alongside it. I'm not that knowledgeable in this area, having just started my first sour with some Supplication and Jolly Pumpkin dregs, but that's what I did. I pitched WLP530 and the Supplication dregs side by side, and the Jolly Pumpkin dregs after primary.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:18 PM   #6
Brkstoutfeind
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Jun 2011
Wayland, MI
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[QUOTE=lpdb185;3687968]i guess i'm showing my ignorance here, but you're saying that the sourness i perceive as something akin to funky lemon juice is somewhat proprietary to Fantome?

Absolutely, from what I've read about the brewery it's located in an old Belgian farmhouse and from what people that have had the opportunity to tour the brewery say, it's not exactly sanitary. Of course it's exactly like the brewer intends as he creates some of the most complex and authentic saisons in the world by using the old Belgian farmhouse techniques. I've only tried a couple of their brews (their flagship saison and Pissenlit) but they have both had that awesome trademark citrusy tart funk. I'm going to brew a sour saison using Fantome dregs next weekend. I'll post my recipe I soon as I formulate it. Do you have yours yet?

 
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #7
flyingfinbar
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Nov 2011
long island, new york
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I had a weird experience with a Fantome Saison. The citrus funk was definitely there, but there was a heavy band aid overtone throughout. I was wondering if I got an off bottle (it was green, maybe it was overexposed to sunlight?).

 
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:50 PM   #8
wonderbread23
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Apr 2009
Brooklyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingfinbar View Post
I had a weird experience with a Fantome Saison. The citrus funk was definitely there, but there was a heavy band aid overtone throughout. I was wondering if I got an off bottle (it was green, maybe it was overexposed to sunlight?).
It can at times be a bit of a crapshoot with Fantome. There have even been reports of people getting different beer in the bottle than what the label states. Bottle variation is quite typical. Their QC isn't great, but when they get a hit, its usually a homerun.

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Old 09-14-2015, 04:12 PM   #9
candleman
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May 2008
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I used Mangrove Jack's Belgian ale yeast for a beer recently and the beer had a citrus tartness I could not Identify. That may be a good choice for the yeast in this clone.

 
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:23 PM   #10
AnthonyUK
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Jun 2011
london, London
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The Fantome Printemps is an absolutely wonderful example of a cutting edge Saison.
It is so well balanced and for me the pinnacle of a modern take on this style.
I agree that QC can be hit and miss but this is true craft brewing not the mainstream breweries take on it.

I don't know how you would replicate it as I understand the brewery use a blend of yeasts as the mood takes them.
Culturing wouldn't really help as you would never maintain the ratios used.
Belle Saison would be a better choice of yeast over MJ M27 if you want something more tart and citrussy.



 
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