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Old 01-18-2012, 12:29 AM   #31
theNOOB
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So I have only one brew under my belt, definite beginner. I used liquid yeast pitched straight from the vial. Didn't even think to make a starter cause it was already hydrated. Can someone explain this concept to me? please

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:34 AM   #32
PoppinCaps
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Short answer, depending on the manufacture date of the vial, you might have anywhere from 30-70 billion viable cells in there, for a needed 190 billion or so for a 5 gallon batch. It will make beer, but a starter will get you to better pitching rates.

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:40 AM   #33
MrManifesto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450
Do some research before posting, it is NOT necessary.

Threads like this make me sick.

Just because the majority believe something, that doesn't make it so.
Jamil Z seems to think it's necessary, as do most books I've read.

A producer of a product is in selling product, not making sure you've got the best beer possible. I'm not saying they're bad people, but it's business.

I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to site sources but google the maltose falcons and they research they've done.

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:43 AM   #34
MrManifesto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450
Especially since he's taking this from another thread where faulty information is being touted as gospel.
Lol...am I? I don't even know what thread you're talking about.

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:46 AM   #35
theNOOB
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Thanks for the enlightenment

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:47 AM   #36
Revvy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManifesto View Post

I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to site sources but google the maltose falcons and they research they've done.
If you're talking about THIS, on first glance I think they're really only talking about liquid cultures. I only scanned it, but they keep talking about smack packs and tubes.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:55 AM   #37
MrManifesto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy

If you're talking about THIS, on first glance I think they're really only talking about liquid cultures. I only scanned it, but they keep talking about smack packs and tubes.
Could be right, it's been a couple since I've read it. Thing is, though, yeast is yeast. Only difference between dry and liquid is that dry has been through a different process (that's pretty tough on them) to make them "dried". They're still the same beast, though and if we're agreeing that it's good to aerate liquid, why not dry? Someone smarter than me may very well know, I'm not trying to present myself as the end all, be all of homebrew but it just doesn't stand to reason with what I know now.

I acknowledge that's there's more to know and if someone can present some real, clear info, I'll change my mind.

 
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManifesto View Post
Could be right, it's been a couple since I've read it. Thing is, though, yeast is yeast. Only difference between dry and liquid is that dry has been through a different process (that's pretty tough on them) to make them "dried". They're still the same beast, though and if we're agreeing that it's good to aerate liquid, why not dry? Someone smarter than me may very well know, I'm not trying to present myself as the end all, be all of homebrew but it just doesn't stand to reason with what I know now.

I acknowledge that's there's more to know and if someone can present some real, clear info, I'll change my mind.
Of course, it can become a thickly scientific topic quickly when you move from anecdote to proof. But I think Dr. Clayton Cone knows what he's talking about - this has been referred to a couple of times now. Here's a link and a quote from it. I'd suggest that if you like your beer, just keep doing what you are doing
"Yeast need a trace amount of oxygen in an anaerobic fermentation such as brewing to produce lipids in the cell wall. With out O2 the cell cannot metabolize the squalene to the next step which is a lipid. ... Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. ... When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum."
Aeration and Starter Versus Wort | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn View Post
Of course, it can become a thickly scientific topic quickly when you move from anecdote to proof. But I think Dr. Clayton Cone knows what he's talking about - this has been referred to a couple of times now. Here's a link and a quote from it. I'd suggest that if you like your beer, just keep doing what you are doing
"Yeast need a trace amount of oxygen in an anaerobic fermentation such as brewing to produce lipids in the cell wall. With out O2 the cell cannot metabolize the squalene to the next step which is a lipid. ... Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. ... When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum."
Aeration and Starter Versus Wort | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage
Right, and who is making 3% beer here? I want them BANNED!
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Old 01-18-2012, 02:51 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrManifesto View Post
about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!
Completely false? The only statement that's completely false is that you're a paid member who values this site enough to fork over some cash for a membership.

You CAN, but don't NEED to aerate when using dry yeast. I've done it both ways and it makes no difference that I can perceive.

 
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