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Old 01-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #11
RichBenn
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I've no good experience with Rye, but am a big IPA brewer and think you are on the right track. I'm a big fan of 30 minute or less for bittering AND flavor on the hops on an IPA(not IIPA), and think your amounts are good for a first try. But most of those I did that way use low color, meaning a touch less crystal 60 than you have (for 3.5 gallons), especially with the rye.

I'm drinking an SN ruthless right now, so am trying to "taste" your brew in my head, FWIW.... But we all have different tastes, so do what sounds good for your flavor buds.

To emphasize not upping the bitterness, the rye does add pepper, which I think ups the bitterness perception, which further strengthens your hop strategy, IMHO.

Let us know how it turns out!

Rich

 
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #12
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I just brewed this myself. It's on gas and quite acceptable

Regarding the hop presence, mine came out just right in bitterness, flavor, and aroma. Here's my take on this beer (I didn't realize this was a spin on Denny's recipe until just now). The centennial is fruity and competes with the rye, I'd probably replace that with more chinook next time (I do love the centennial though!). I'd go with a greater percentage of rye, also. Probably at least 25%, and extend the mash to over an hour.

I've had the Ruthless Rye. The recipe below does not have that strong rye presence.
Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071
Measured Final Gravity: 1.019
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 %
Bitterness: 65.6 IBUs
Est Color: 7.0 SRM
Yeast: S-05

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
4 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %

80.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 37.0 IBUs
30.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 8.4 IBUs
60.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 9.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:01 AM   #13
Yooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Looks like a scaled down version of my recipe....I've made it with all late additon hops a few times, but it never seemd to have the "hop punch" I like in the beer. The bitterness was too subdued and mellow for my tastes.
I like Denny's recipe alot. But I think Mt Hood is maybe not the best choice for hop bursting. It's like a noble hop- fine, with a great hops flavor, but not the "big citrusy" flavors I seem to like best in hopbursted ales.

How about Denny's grainbill with the hopbursting from Jamil's Evil Twin? That seems like the best of both worlds.

I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn View Post
I just brewed this myself. It's on gas and quite acceptable

Regarding the hop presence, mine came out just right in bitterness, flavor, and aroma. Here's my take on this beer (I didn't realize this was a spin on Denny's recipe until just now). The centennial is fruity and competes with the rye, I'd probably replace that with more chinook next time (I do love the centennial though!). I'd go with a greater percentage of rye, also. Probably at least 25%, and extend the mash to over an hour.

I've had the Ruthless Rye. The recipe below does not have that strong rye presence.
Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071
Measured Final Gravity: 1.019
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 %
Bitterness: 65.6 IBUs
Est Color: 7.0 SRM

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
4 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 14.3 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %

80.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 37.0 IBUs
30.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 8.4 IBUs
60.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 10.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 9.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
50.00 g Centennial [10.90 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
50.00 g Chinook [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
I guess I should read to the end before posting! I love the looks of this recipe. I'd probably change up the rye a bit, using some malted rye to get up to 20% rye, but otherwise I think this looks great. I also love amarillo hops with rye.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post

I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
Last summer I did a rye/saison with 25% rye and I thought the rye contribution was modest. When I brew my first rye IPA next month I planned to use 40% rye to help it "compete" with the burst hopping I will no doubt employ. Does 40% rye sound like too much in a very hop-forward IPA?
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I like Denny's recipe alot. But I think Mt Hood is maybe not the best choice for hop bursting. It's like a noble hop- fine, with a great hops flavor, but not the "big citrusy" flavors I seem to like best in hopbursted ales.

How about Denny's grainbill with the hopbursting from Jamil's Evil Twin? That seems like the best of both worlds.

I really like 20% rye in my rye IPAs.
So I looked at evil twins hops .... Do you think Columbus and cascade will be complementary to the rye ? .... Do you think it would be ok to keep some nugget in there at the 30 minute addition ? ..... Thanks for the thoughts !

 
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadarnell View Post
So I looked at evil twins hops .... Do you think Columbus and cascade will be complementary to the rye ? .... Do you think it would be ok to keep some nugget in there at the 30 minute addition ? ..... Thanks for the thoughts !
I really like centennial with a rye IPA, and I've never used nugget. I especially like chinook, simcoe and amarillo with rye.

Here's the last rye IPA I did:

8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 55.2 %
3 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6 20.7 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (US) (3.5 SRM) Grain 7 13.8 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8 5.2 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.4 %

1.00 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11 42.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite (Wyeast Labs #1450PC) [50.00 ml] Yeast 17 (with starter)
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs

If I was going to hopburst this, I'd just drop the FWH and add more hops at 20, 15, 10 minutes.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:46 AM   #18
cadarnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I really like centennial with a rye IPA, and I've never used nugget. I especially like chinook, simcoe and amarillo with rye.

Here's the last rye IPA I did:

8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 55.2 %
3 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 6 20.7 %
2 lbs Vienna Malt (US) (3.5 SRM) Grain 7 13.8 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8 5.2 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 9 3.4 %

1.00 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 11 42.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 9.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 13.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite (Wyeast Labs #1450PC) [50.00 ml] Yeast 17 (with starter)
1.00 oz Amarillo [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs

If I was going to hopburst this, I'd just drop the FWH and add more hops at 20, 15, 10 minutes.

Ok I love simcoe so I am going to work that in .... I'll post what I brew in a few days .... I think I can brew Thursday night ... All great info ... Thanks

 
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:47 AM   #19
cadarnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichBenn View Post
I've no good experience with Rye, but am a big IPA brewer and think you are on the right track. I'm a big fan of 30 minute or less for bittering AND flavor on the hops on an IPA(not IIPA), and think your amounts are good for a first try. But most of those I did that way use low color, meaning a touch less crystal 60 than you have (for 3.5 gallons), especially with the rye.

I'm drinking an SN ruthless right now, so am trying to "taste" your brew in my head, FWIW.... But we all have different tastes, so do what sounds good for your flavor buds.

To emphasize not upping the bitterness, the rye does add pepper, which I think ups the bitterness perception, which further strengthens your hop strategy, IMHO.

Let us know how it turns out!

Rich
Thanks for these thoughts .... I'll post here what I brew and the results ... Cheers !!

 
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbeergeek View Post
Last summer I did a rye/saison with 25% rye and I thought the rye contribution was modest. When I brew my first rye IPA next month I planned to use 40% rye to help it "compete" with the burst hopping I will no doubt employ. Does 40% rye sound like too much in a very hop-forward IPA?
I think you might be getting close to a good rye flavor. My Rye PA had 22% and it also was just mediocre. I tried the Ruthless last weekend and thought the rye was not very strong at all. It cannot compare to Short's Rich's Rye. Rich's Rye is like sticking your head into a bag of rye bread. No kidding. I was at Short's last summer and I asked the guy behind the bar what percent rye was in that beer. He had to go into the back and ask someone but what he told me I could not believe. He said 85%!
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