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Old 01-15-2012, 12:59 PM   #11
dinnerstick's Avatar
Nov 2010
utrecht, netherlands
Posts: 2,019
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Originally Posted by Daze View Post
yes you are more likely to get gushers, but you are also less likely to get bombs. It is not just the co2. If you bottle a still cider ice cold and then bring it up to room temp there will be a fair amount of pressure in the bottle just from the expansion of the liquid as it warms, then add max co2 to that mix and the pressure is high. pasteurizing is a risky process if there is any chance of to much pressure, so why would you increase your risk by releasing the pressure and recapping when cold?? doing it warm will still provide tons on co2 but will reduce the chance of bottle bombs.
the density of liquids is notoriously stable through temperature ranges. water is famously most dense (ie smallest volume per unit mass) at 4 degrees; fridge temp, which is also the reference point for water mass: 1 gram of water at 4 degrees is 1 cc., or 1 ml.; density = 1.0000 (g/ml)
at 20 degrees, room temp, (farenheight fans- come on, modernize!) density of water is 0.9982. if you have 350 ml (beer bottle) of water raised from 4 to 20 degrees the change in volume therefore is 0.6 ml. the normal head space in a beer bottle is 20-25 ml. properties of ethanol/water mixes are different and harder to calculate but change in density of 5 or 10% ethanol is very similar to water. compared to the relatively great change of pressure from expanding gas in a very small space and the release of gas from solution this change is negligible.
heating a sealed bottle is always dangerous, i agree, but it is also a pointless endeavor if you are not preserving carbonation! if you just want to kill the yeast then heat with the bottles open, or pass the cider through a coil submerged in hot water. the idea is to walk the two fine lines between dangerous gas levels / not enough fizz, and and too-high heat / unsafe low temps. that has been the whole point of pappers' sticky, where he determined that, if you have a bottle of cider which is perfectly carbed when it has been in the fridge and equilibrated to fridge temps, then this bottle will safely survive the heating conditions he describes. however you get to that point, once you are there the bottle is at least deemed safe enough to heat following the pappers protocol, but i agree that you would need to use caution in getting the bottles safely up to the kill temperature.
holy dennis did i really just type that much crap... sorry. too much coffee. didn't mean to be a dick, just after facts. going to brew a porter now

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Old 01-15-2012, 04:56 PM   #12
Daze's Avatar
Dec 2011
Kalispell, MT
Posts: 657
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Originally Posted by dinnerstick View Post
holy dennis did i really just type that much crap... sorry. too much coffee. didn't mean to be a dick, just after facts. going to brew a porter now

you are right there was a lot of stuff there BUT I like it I am a fact guy . I totally see where you are coming from your motives are good, you just want to help him have a quality product with as little cider loss as possible decent carbonation that is safe to pasteurize. My goals are the same. Everything you have said is true, and he probably could have recapped it cold as you suggest and been fine pasteurizing it. However I know from experience that if you open it slowly at room temp, you can keep it from gushing. Then if you recap it and pasteurize it will still have tones of carbonation. The advantages is when you pasteurize there is less chance of bottle bombs. One thing I learned when reading through the entire pasteurizing thread is that making a mistake is easy, and it is mistakes that lead to bombs. so my thinking is to error on the side of caution and give your self a little room to make a mistake and not get a bomb.

unfortunately I think my urgings to be cautious convinced the OP to bottle flat cider and for that I am sorry

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Old 01-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #13
Aug 2011
Centerville, KS
Posts: 22
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Well I opened a bottle yesterday (21 days after pitching the yeast) and it was pretty much flat, BUT, it tastes amazing! The s.g reading I took said 1.008 which I really like. I have another question which you guys might know the answer to; the cider is perfectly clear. Is it clear because I stuck all the bottles in 34-36 F degree temperature and the yeast dropped out? Or does bottle pasteurizing clarify the cider as well?
My recipe is: cider, pectic enzyme, nutrient, energizer, oak, and a cinnamon stick.

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