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Old 01-05-2012, 12:23 AM   #11
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botulism?!?!?! Can this happen?? I'm trippin now ... Lol... Not really, but it does concern me a little due to the fact I am just about to bottle my first brew ever (cider) and my girlfriend made a joke about KILLIN all my friends... Can you really get botulism? How do you test that? Oh crap...


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Old 01-05-2012, 12:54 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
my girlfriend made a joke about KILLIN all my friends... Can you really get botulism? How do you test that? Oh crap...
Just give it to one friend. Then, wait a while before you give it to your other friends.


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Old 01-05-2012, 02:19 AM   #13
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Brill - The easiest way is to "pour against the shoulder". Here is a video showing how.


Now you just have to find your dad's old brewing gear, bully him into brewing a batch with you and get into it yourself. Good luck!

Devo - No worries, man!
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:25 AM   #14
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I don't get why folks are so freaked out to try **** like this...I mean noone hesitates to spend bazillions of dollars on old wine, yet if someone finds an old bottle of beer, or cider or something, they **** themselves at the mere thought of trying it...Why?

How many times do we have a chance to taste history, good or bad? Since nothing pathogenic can grow in fermented beverages, there should be no concern about the harmful aspects. So what's left? If it's vinegar you'll know if it's bad before you taste it...if it's anything else, like oxidyzed, so what? You spit it out...

But it may be amazing. If anything it may be a once in a lifetime experience. Why would you even hesitate? Why would you ever consider passing this up?

Read this.. We tried 48 year old beer today.

I don't get it...why the hell don't people jump into this when they have an opportunity?
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:28 AM   #15
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Whoever brought up botulism is an idiot. Botulism cannot survive the process of fermentation.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Whoever brought up botulism is an idiot. Botulism cannot survive the process of fermentation.
I was just using botulism toxin as an example of something pasteurization has no effect on. I never said I thought the old cider had it. I don't think anybody here thinks it could have.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I was just using botulism toxin as an example of something pasteurization has no effect on. I never said I thought the old cider had it. I don't think anybody here thinks it could have.
That's not true, the toxin is over 99.99% or 99.5% inactivated (depending on the type of toxin) with pasteurization at 72 degrees celsius, at least according to this study.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #18
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those floaty bits are probably the botulism, and botulism can always be safely skimmed off

seriously you have a really unique experience here so enjoy it on behalf of us, the jealous masses. if you could get your hands on some young homemade cider you could do a great tasting along with some of the mediocre store bought ones... whoops i'm dreaming again
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:46 PM   #19
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Despite the ridiculousness of the idea of botulism in your cider I looked into the possibility. Botulism can exist in alcohol, as there was a serious case of botulism in a case of homebrewed prison hooch. Utah Prison Hooch

However it is very unlikely that your cider has any botulism, unless your dad stored the apples for his cider for a prolonged period and in an unsanitary manner (like hiding it in a toilet). And even if he did, the acid content of the apples is very inhospitable to the bacteria (Clostridium botulinum) that produces the botulism toxin. The prison hooch was made from potatoes which have a much lower acid content then apples.

Now let’s assume that the apples were very low in acid and stored in an insanitary way for an extended period of time. You are still looking at a VERY rare disease, occurring mostly in meat products (“[called] "botulism" after "botulus", the Latin word for sausage.” Botulism History link).

“In the United States, an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported every year. Approximately 25% are food borne, 72% are infant botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. Outbreaks of food borne botulism involving two or more persons are the most frequent, and are usually caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of foodborne and infant botulism has changed little in recent years, but wound botulism has increased because of the wide spread use of drugs.” Botulism Stats link

There are over 311,000,000 people in the United States, which means 0.000035% of people each year get Botulism, and only 25% are from food, so 0.00000875% of people get botulism from food each year. Factoring in that MOST cases are from meats, (lets round down to 1/2 cases being meats) we are now looking less than at 0.000004375% of people getting food borne from non-meats.

I think you will be ok.
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:51 PM   #20
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Maybe we should have a "Cider Botox" sticky. I nominate Devo9!


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