melanoiden malt vs. munich malt - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > melanoiden malt vs. munich malt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-14-2011, 04:11 PM   #1
justclancy
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Bologna, Italy
Posts: 45


I was wondering about the differences between Munich malt and Melanoiden malt. I can only get munich malt in 5 kg increments, but can get melanoiden malt in 1 kg increments. For upcoming recipes I will only need a small amount of these types of grains, so I would like to get the melanoiden.
My problem is that I have never used melanoiden malt, so I would like to know how it is similar to, and different from, munich malt. I have used munich malt in high percentages, up to 50% of the grain bill, and have liked the results. To get a similar type of effect from melanoiden malt as I get from munich malt would I have to use significantly less melanoiden malt?
For example, if I had a recipe that was 80% pils and 20% munich, could I substitute the melanoiden for the munich, use 90% pils and 10% mel, and get a similar tasting beer?
Any thoughts on these two malts?

Edit: the lighter, about 8L munich, not the darker 20L munich.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 04:38 PM   #2
badhabit
Recipes 
 
Mar 2010
Evanston Wyoming
Posts: 721
Liked 13 Times on 13 Posts


Weyermann recommends use of Melanoiden up to 20% of total grist. From experiance I have learned to use 10% for a nice malty profile that you can balance with finishing hops. If I want a very malty style with less or little hop finish I will go to the 20%. I started using 5% and was disapointed with the malt profile. All that said it is going to be determined by your taste.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 02:33 PM   #3
justclancy
Recipes 
 
Nov 2009
Bologna, Italy
Posts: 45

Interesting. So would you say that Munich and Melanoiden give the beer a similar flavor, and a similar type of body, but that you need less of the Melanoiden than you would Munich?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 02:38 PM   #4
usfmikeb
 
usfmikeb's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 3,148
Liked 238 Times on 201 Posts


IMO there's a flavor difference between the two. I might replace some of the Munich with melanoidin, but definitely not all of it.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 02:40 PM   #5
usfmikeb
 
usfmikeb's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 3,148
Liked 238 Times on 201 Posts


Keep style of beer in mind as well, Munich is key to many European beers.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 03:18 PM   #6
badhabit
Recipes 
 
Mar 2010
Evanston Wyoming
Posts: 721
Liked 13 Times on 13 Posts


Whatever it is in Melanoidin (it may actually be called Melanoidin) that gives it the very malty flavor is also present in large amounts in Munich and in Vienna. The first difference is that it is in higher concentration in Melanoidin than in the others. Melanoidin was developed (by Weyermann I think?) as a specialty grain to add the malty taste without having to use larger ammounts of other malty base malts, Munich and Vienna in particular. Both of the others can be used as a base malt and are often used as a specialty.
That all being said Munich and Melanoidin are not the same. Munich has other flavors and even other malting temps (Munich I and Munich II) that add other flavors.
As far as mouth feel, they are not malted to enhance mouth feel. That can be enhanced with mashing technique and with the addition of a half to 1 lb of Cara-Pils

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2011, 03:26 PM   #7
pjj2ba
Look under the recliner
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
pjj2ba's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2006
State College, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,379
Liked 205 Times on 167 Posts


I believe Melanoidon malt is most similar to Aromatic malt, and then Biscuit malt. I find Munich to be much richer and melanoidin to be more "neutral" flavored, but adding nice body
__________________
On Tap: Doppelbock O'fest, Pale Ale, cider
Kegged and Aging/Lagering: CAP, Ger. Pils, OKZ (std Amer. lager), CZ Pils, Amer. Wheat, Rye IPA, Saison
Secondary:
Primary: Ger Pils, CAP
Brewing soon: Pale lager, Amer. wheat
Recently kicked : (
Pilsner Urquell Master Homebrewer
(1st NYC 2011, 2nd NYC 2012)
P U crowns winners in its inaugural master HB competition

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2011, 01:49 AM   #8
ghpeel
 
ghpeel's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Gainesville, FL
Posts: 1,214
Liked 24 Times on 22 Posts


Melanoiden can give a very slight "fruit" character. I believe I was Denny who posted that somewhere, and it perfectly described a lager I had just done. It was a good, subtle flavor, not "fruity", just a weird kind of sweetness.
__________________
=============================================

Kegged: Dunkelweizen
Primary: American Pale Ale

 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2011, 01:32 PM   #9
PeterBrews
Recipes 
 
May 2011
St. Louis, MO
Posts: 7

As it has been explained to me, melanoidins, formed as a result of the Maillard reaction (think bread crust), are best extracted from malt especially kilned malts (Vienna, Munich, victory, biscuit) by decoction mashing. Double and triple decoctions assumably achieve even better results in big well-rounded bready malt flavors. However, since homebrewers may not want to add 2-3 hours of extra brew time, you have melanoidin malt produced commercially as a substitute. However, there's never been a perfect substitute for hard work and extra waiting in brewing. Especially German brewing.

Someone please correct me if any of this is erroneous.

Cheers

Peter

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using Munich malt bob3000 Recipes/Ingredients 6 06-19-2011 08:27 AM
Melanoiden malt replacement renevdb Recipes/Ingredients 11 08-01-2010 10:49 PM
which Munich malt? JLem Recipes/Ingredients 4 07-31-2009 04:37 PM
Munich Malt irishod89 Recipes/Ingredients 5 06-09-2009 01:59 AM
Sub for munich malt? mangine77 Recipes/Ingredients 7 12-20-2008 09:29 PM


Forum Jump