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Old 12-01-2011, 03:12 PM   #21
DangerRoss
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
More than likely if that were truly the case, as it cools it would more than likely form a tighter bond with the bucket...just like suckback from an airlock or a vacuum forming in canning as it cools, or doing no0chill brewing in an aquatainer. . Things don't expand when they cool, they contract, you would actually have a safer lid/bucket connection if that were the case.
They probably fell asleep during chemistry class when the teacher was explaining the ideal gas law and missed out on the whole pressure, temperature, volume relationship.



 
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:27 PM   #22
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They probably fell asleep during chemistry class when the teacher was explaining the ideal gas law and missed out on the whole pressure, temperature, volume relationship.
Yeah.

I think some folks are so freaked out still about brewing that they come up with all these fear rationalizations for not wanting to do something that we have shown on this thread and others that folks do all the time, both on the homebrewer scale, AND commercially.


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Old 12-01-2011, 03:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by revvy View Post
yeah.

I think some folks are so freaked out still about brewing that they come up with all these fear rationalizations for not wanting to do something that we have shown on this thread and others that folks do all the time, both on the homebrewer scale, and commercially.
this ^^^
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:36 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by cimirie View Post
Not really. The nasties you speak of don't have legs. Bacteria and wild yeasts rely on airflow to move. As long as the lid covers the bucket, nothing is gonna get in.

Unless of course you have a cockroach problem. Then you're screwed.
Fruit flies have legs, though

Summer's about the only time that I snap down my lids on buckets and use airlocks on my carboys instead of foil. I used to be rather nonchalant about it, but discovered this summer that with enough resilience, they can apparently get to where they really want to go. Not saying anyone should become paranoid - just relating my own experience.

 
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:48 PM   #25
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They probably fell asleep during chemistry class when the teacher was explaining the ideal gas law and missed out on the whole pressure, temperature, volume relationship.
When the air inside the fermenter cools it will contract, creating lower pressure and causing air from the outside to be pulled in. I'm not sure what you don't get about that. . .

Quote:
as it cools it would more than likely form a tighter bond with the bucket
That's only true if both the lid and the the rim of the bucket were perfectly flat. If you've brewed more than once, or if you've flexed your lid to fit it into another bucket to sanitize it, then they almost certainly aren't.

Quote:
I think some folks are so freaked out still about brewing that they come up with all these fear rationalizations for not wanting to do something that we have shown on this thread and others that folks do all the time, both on the homebrewer scale, AND commercially.
I've seen a lot of open fermenters commercially, and they (sometimes) get great results. Anchor does that, I think. I also have brewed a couple of beers in open fermenters, and I've gotten good results from them too.

Neither the commercial brewers nor I, however, are asking questions in a "Beginner's Beer Brewing Forum," where novice brewers are still discovering how their fermenters behave in various rooms of their house, garage, basement, or closets. As PseudoChef points out, insects are a problem to consider if you're going to leave the lid of your fermenter off. So is the effect the decreased osmotic pressure will have on your yeast character, and yes, sanitation.

The fact that a technique will work and even produce good results doesn't automatically mean that it is always preferred or desirable, and telling beginning brewers that "anything goes" is not something that I, when I was just getting started out, would have found helpful.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
the "nasties" are not ninja acrobats
This is my favorite Revvy quote... I say this to myself everytime I start to worry about a contamination.
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
Yeah.

I think some folks are so freaked out still about brewing that they come up with all these fear rationalizations for not wanting to do something that we have shown on this thread and others that folks do all the time, both on the homebrewer scale, AND commercially.
I sorta blame Palmer for a lot of this fear of contamination. After reading his book, I was really paranoid about it.

Since reading a lot of this board (and applying my own common sense) I realize that there is not much to worry about. That doesn't mean I'm not careful about sanitizing (because I am) but I realize as long as I take certain simple, common-sense steps to avoid contamination, it probably ain't gonna happen.

 
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:27 PM   #28
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I either ferment with the lid loose or I just leave it off completely.

However, I also ferment inside a dedicated chamber that is fully sanitiozed prior to service.

 
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:40 PM   #29
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I sorta blame Palmer for a lot of this fear of contamination. After reading his book, I was really paranoid about it.
I've complained about that for years as well. He seemed to focus on all the "worst case scenarios," and freaked out an entire generation of brewers- He went I think into too much detail about all the boogeymen, HSA, Autolysis, yadda yadda yadda, without actually getting into how rare it really is. And folks just tended to glom onto the fear.

And every day we have to pick up the pieces hundreds of times a day of freaked out new brewers. Or the "vs" people who can't get their head around the idea that there are multiple ways of doing things that one thing, be it, plastic or glass, batch or fly sparging, or anything else that can be asked as a -vs-, is no better or worse than another thing, it's just a different and equally valid way of doing things...just like this, folks bristle at the idea that folks may not snap the lid down, or use plexiglass or tinfoil, or whatever.

It's funny, you have Papazian in the 60's and 70's with the very hippie, rdwhahb ethic, just lay back, let the process happen and everything will be fine. Then you have the next generation, Generation Palmer, that totally focuses on and worries about the negative, and seems to delve into absolutes.

And I think the kind of brewer you are has a lot to do with which book you read first. I read Papazian and was told repeatedly to relax....So that's the attitude I took from day 1, and you know it hasn't proven me wrong yet...nor has it a lot of brewers.
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Old 12-01-2011, 05:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by squirrelly View Post
A few commercial breweries do exactly what you are talking about and ferment in an open vessel until the end of high krausen. They believe as long as C02 is escaping nothing can contaminate the beer. It is also believed that due to the active yeast volume and alcohol being created no rogue organisms can survive.

As true as this may be, I personally choose not to practice this method. Everything I do as far as brewing is done in a clean room and only closed fermentations and closed transfers take place.

I am very paranoid about an infected batch of beer, and so this has become my practice.

By the way when I say "infected" I am not referring to an awful unsinkable beer, but rather anything whether it be a faint odd smell or the slightest off flavor. Those two symptoms as well as what's often times referred to as a "house flavor" will usually result in a judge knocking down the score of one's beer due to an off flavor or infection.
just busting your balls a little bit.



 
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