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Old 11-27-2011, 10:58 PM   #1
shotgunner
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Hi all, I just put my into thread in and have a question.

I saw the thread about the most aggressive yeast with all the results. I am making vinegar and am using novel sugars for the alcohol hoping to have a large range of naturally flavored vinegars. The problem is aggressive yeasts eat complex sugars too and leave "dry" product. I am seeking a yeast that only eats simple sugars and leaves behind all complex sugars for flavor in my end product.

Slow is OK. Time I have.

Anybody have suggestions??

 
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:01 PM   #2
Erroneous
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I thought vinegar requires a bacterial "mother", not yeast.

 
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:43 PM   #3
shotgunner
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Well..... it needs both.

First you must produce the alcohol that the 'mother' needs. The mother converts ethanol to acetic acid. I am making the vinegar all the way from scratch. Sugar/yeast = alcohol, transfer to secondary aerate, add mother and wait a few months for vinegar.

Just wanting to make flavors unavailable in stores such as maple vinegar. I have lots of ideas for trying to produce novel vinegars for making sauces, mustards, salad dressings.....

 
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:51 PM   #4
harrydrez
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Oh, that sounds like a an amazing idea and I would love it if you documented your experiments here. How about a British strain such as WLP002 or Windsor?

Perhaps you could use something like a sweet mead/wine yeast.

 
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:14 AM   #5
shotgunner
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Thanks Harry. I actually made a blog for this purpose. I'll be sure to link to it in my signature so everyone can see the results. Not much there now. MOre as I do and learn more.

I guess a yeast made for porters/stouts may be in order.

Any other ideas? Perhaps a resource indicating the aggressive (or lack there of) nature of various yeasts?

Been surfing around. Looks like I want to add an aquarium pump and stone to my setup. This WILL make happy Acetobacters!

Reason: added thought and a question.

 
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:22 AM   #6
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Just about any wine or ale yeast will ferment all of the sugars available. What I would suggest (or at least, what I do for malt vinegar and wine vinegar) is starting with a lower gravity must/wort. This will make less acidity in the vinegar. For example, if you want to make a wine vinegar instead of making a 12% wine and then diluting it and adding the mother, start with something that would be, say, 6% ABV. To do that, start with a lower OG must. Since any fermentable sugars will be consumed, start with an OG of about 1.045 (a wine or any ingredient will simple sugars will usually ferment to .990).
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:06 AM   #7
shotgunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
Just about any wine or ale yeast will ferment all of the sugars available.
The history behind my question is thus:

I many moons ago I made a batch of doppelbock. I used "ale yeast". It was the most awesome beer I had made and went back for a second batch. The second batch I could not get the same yeast and the store owner said "try this champagne yeast, it is very similar".

We had no yeasts with part numbers or whatever. We had dry yeasts labelled "ale yeast", "lager yeast", champagne yeast...

Well the finish gravity of the champagne yeast batch was 0.995! Enough alcohol to make the finished product lighter than water. The flavor was extraordinarily dry and not desirable at all. The first batch was very sweet and malty. All of these more complex carbs left behind in the first batch were utilized by the champagne yeast to yield a higher alcohol beverage.

Thru this I learned that all yeasts are not equal in what is "available". Thus the statement "Just about any wine or ale yeast will ferment all of the sugars available" while true; is not very descriptive in an across the board blanket statement. The fact remains that what is fermentable is different depending upon the yeast strain utilized.

Thus I still continue in my quest for the least aggressive yeast. The one that will leave the complex carbs and flavors alone.

 
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:13 AM   #8
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I dunno. Fermentable is fermentable, as far as I know. Sure, different ingredients and processes may lead to a more or less fermentable wort/must, but as far as I know, any yeast will consume whatever they can...

 
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunner View Post
Thus I still continue in my quest for the least aggressive yeast. The one that will leave the complex carbs and flavors alone.
You experience is unusual, and even with champagne yeast the beer shouldn't have fermented that low. If you didn't have that experience, I'd say it's not possible. Unless you used simple sugars, which will easily go to .990.

In any case, ANY wine/ale yeast, even bread yeast, will easily go to 9+%. So your idea of finding an less attenuative (not aggresssive) yeast strain will not work. Starting with a lower OG WILL work.

For example, if you start at 1.040, no matter what happens and how "aggressive" the yeast is, it's not possible to go below .990. Then, it's finished and you can add your aceterobacteri. If you start at 1.100, it'll still probably go to .990. So, if you start lower at the beginning, you issue isn't an issue at all.

Simple sugars will completely ferment, that's just the way it is. So, if you add less simple sugars in the beginning, there is less alcohol to be converted to vinegar meaning a less acidic vinegar.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:14 AM   #10
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Try danstar windsor it's dry and easy. Last time I used it it left a very high final gravity.

Either that or mash high. You could also steep some grains if you use extract.

Edit - I just reread your post. I think you would be better off adding some of the original sugar to the final product. I made some applewein in to apple cider vinegar and it came less like apple cider vinegar and more like regular vinegar.

I learned a few things making that batch of vinegar.

 
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