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Old 11-20-2011, 07:21 AM   #1
kontreren
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Question: Will rice syrup solids convert its starches into fermentable sugars when brewed with sorghum syrup (malt extract)? I ask because I experimented with sorghum syrup as my base adding flaked corn (maize), instant rice and simply could not get the corn nor rice to convert. The second I threw in a small amount of barley malt (not extract) the corn and rice converted immediately from starch to sugars.

So will the rice syrup solids convert? Or even better question, is it already converted from starch to sugars?
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:00 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kontreren View Post
Question: Will rice syrup solids convert its starches into fermentable sugars when brewed with sorghum syrup (malt extract)? I ask because I experimented with sorghum syrup as my base adding flaked corn (maize), instant rice and simply could not get the corn nor rice to convert. The second I threw in a small amount of barley malt (not extract) the corn and rice converted immediately from starch to sugars.

So will the rice syrup solids convert? Or even better question, is it already converted from starch to sugars?
Rice syrup solids and sorghum syrup are extract products and contain no starch-converting enzymes. You require a base malt product with diastatic enzymes to convert the starch in unmalted grain products (flake maize, rice, etc) to fermentable sugars.

 
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:15 PM   #3
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Or you can buy the enzymes if you're trying to avoid using any malt.

 
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:59 AM   #4
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Neither answered the main question (though they are true): Rice syrup solids are a sugar. Rice syrup solids are the dehydrated remains of rice syrup, which is already converted rice starch.

Rice, corn, and any other grain (non gluten containing) do need to be converted with the addition of enzymes from some source (unfortunately, the most common source is malted barley).

Sorghum syrup and rice syrup (and rice syrup solids) are products that have been converted to sugars and as such, do not need further conversion. They also do not contain enzymes for converting anything else.
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:41 AM   #5
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awesome answer, thankx, thats watt i was thinking; It also reminds me that I tried the enzyme to convert flaked corn for a considerable amount of time with no success before tossing in a small amount of barley malt only to watch the corn convert instantly. I was a little apprehensive adding the enzyme. Over an hour or so I used 2 or 3 teaspoons. I wasn't sure how much was "too much" enzyme. Also unsure if that enzyme gets old and loses potency as well.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:15 PM   #6
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I actually create GF starters with 1-2 cups of rice syrup solids per 2 quarts.
Also, I may try creating a "Sake" using rice syrup solids and wine yeast.
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougmanXL
I actually create GF starters with 1-2 cups of rice syrup solids per 2 quarts.
Also, I may try creating a "Sake" using rice syrup solids and wine yeast.
There's a specific spore that you need for sake, I think you can get it at AHS.

 
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:15 AM   #8
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Enzymes do have a shelflife, so it's only good for a certain length of time. Also, I believe we've discussed that they are only alpha enzymes, not beta enzymes which will affect different conversion parts.

Barley has both, but of course, using barley means it's not gluten free.

Rice syrup can be used for starters, but if you do, I'd probably recommend adding nutrients. It's a bit light on the nutrient side.

Yes, real sake needs the specific mold that produces enzymes to convert rice starch into sugar. However a 100% rice beer "sake" is possible. Oddly enough, it does not have the same taste as sake. I found the 100% rice beer to be slightly more caramelly than real sake, probably due to processing.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:38 PM   #9
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I usually use 1tsp of yeast nutrient in starters and my beers. Thanks for the info though, guess I'll have brew sake the usual way, I was hoping that might be a good shortcut for making sake.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:35 AM   #10
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Well, I techincally was trying to make a starter (but wound up doing what was a full batch, thinking that was a starter) no hops. It tasted ok, kind of sweet, but not like sake (which I did later) and more like beer. It could be because I used ale yeast too, but it was more caramel like rather than ...vodka like... (not quite, what I mean) but sake is more clear and floral.
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