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Old 01-19-2012, 01:46 AM   #51
pm5k00
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Apr 2011
Cibolo, TX
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You/I ideal/acceptable, yes I was expressing my opinion, not trying to convey a universal truth. And "correct" pitching rate is subjective, there lots of different ways to do things that are neither wronge or right. They way I like todo things and the results are all preference, and as far as american pale ales go, I personally like to smell the hops first and malt second, with zero esters from yeast.

 
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:18 PM   #52
bolshoifish
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Dec 2011
London, ON
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So, if a commercial brewer wanted to scale a recipe that relied on a relatively moderate pitching rate for the taste, how would they do so? I would imagine that underpitching isn't really an option on a large scale since the possible lack of profitability is an issue in the highly competitive beer market (due to longer fermentation rates and possible inability to reuse yeast?) So, do they have an alternate route for producing esters?

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:43 AM   #53
MachineShopBrewing
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Nov 2009
Montrose, MN
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Quote:
So, do they have an alternate route for producing esters?
Yep,

Temp, oxygen...

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:48 AM   #54
SocalNat
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Nov 2011
san diego, california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchAtStone View Post
And no, I can't provide Arrogant Bastard Ale recipe or ingredients ;-)
"You can, and you will!"
Dr. Reston (Svenjolly) on Seinfeld
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A fine beer may be judged with just one sip, but it's better to be completely sure. -- Czech proverb

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:56 AM   #55
bolshoifish
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Dec 2011
London, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineShopBrewing View Post
Yep,

Temp, oxygen...
I should probably just read a textbook, but in not so few words, your saying they alter the conditions to induce additional yeast growth? If not, I would think the reactions producing esters due to fermentation at higher temperatures varies considerably from those produced via anabolic reactions involving offshoots of the Krebs cycle (I'm assuming they are coming from anabolic since it is during a propagation phase.. but, I've been wrong many times before).

Any way you could be more specific?

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:59 AM   #56
emjay
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Jan 2011
Toronto, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolshoifish

I should probably just read a textbook, but in not so few words, your saying they alter the conditions to induce additional yeast growth? If not, I would think the reactions producing esters due to fermentation at higher temperatures varies considerably from those produced via anabolic reactions involving offshoots of the Krebs cycle (I'm assuming they are coming from anabolic since it is during a propagation phase.. but, I've been wrong many times before).

Any way you could be more specific?
No, you're on the right track it sounds like. It's just a reality that commercial breweries have to deal with... there is no "perfect" compensation for it (though I doubt anyone cares too much, tbh).

 
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #57
MachineShopBrewing
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Nov 2009
Montrose, MN
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Quote:
I should probably just read a textbook, but in not so few words, your saying they alter the conditions to induce additional yeast growth? If not, I would think the reactions producing esters due to fermentation at higher temperatures varies considerably from those produced via anabolic reactions involving offshoots of the Krebs cycle (I'm assuming they are coming from anabolic since it is during a propagation phase.. but, I've been wrong many times before).

Any way you could be more specific?
I think most brewers are just going to go from experience to create the flavor profile that they want. I would pickup the Yeast book for more in depth info. I am not a micro biologist, nor do I play one on TV, so I'm not really knowledgeable on all the reactions.

Every fermentation is different. What works for one brewer will not work for another. Wort composition, fermenter shape and size, ambient atmosphere, base water, etc... are all factors. That is where the "zen" of brewing comes into play and you adjust the factors based on experience to create the flavor profile that you want based on your equipment.

 
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