No Sparge Calculation Help - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > No Sparge Calculation Help

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-29-2011, 08:28 PM   #1
McCue
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Hamilton, MT
Posts: 8


So I'm trying to formulate a no sparge version of Jamil Zainascheff's English Barleywine recipe and I'm confused. The two methods of calculating no sparge scale factors in Palmers book give very different results. JZ's recipe has 20.4 lbs of grain with an average FGDB congress yield of 36.7 ppg for a total of 748 pts. He says to collect 7.1 gallons with a boil gravity of 1.070 so that’s 497 points which he then boils down to 5 gallons at 1.100. That gives an extract efficiency of 66%. When I do a no sparge mash my extract efficiency is usually about 62% so I obviously need more grain and there are two ways to calculate it. If I do it based on my efficiency I get the following. I want to end the 2 hour boil with 5.5 gallons at 1.100 so that’s 550 pts. I want to start the boil with 7.5 gallons so that’s a boil gravity of 1.073. If I want to collect 550 points and I usually get 62% then I need 887 points in the mash. So if my mash needs 887 points and the recipe has 748 points in it, it seems like I should scale the grain bill by 887/748 which is 1.186. So instead of his 20.4 lbs I'll need 24.2 lbs of grain. That seems fine. But if I use the "long way" calc from palmers book which is based on this derivation: http://home.roadrunner.com/~brewbeer.../nbsparge.html it tells me I need to scale up the grain bill by 1.52 which is 31 lbs of grain! That’s quite a difference. I've read that derivation and it makes sense to me, but so does the efficiency approach that I described above. Which is right?



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2011, 08:44 PM   #2
JuanMoore
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
The Old Pueblo
Posts: 21,629
Liked 3656 Times on 3480 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by McCue View Post
Which is right?
I didn't read the entire "long way" formulation, but scaling up by 1.52 seems high to me, although it's probably more accurate. I'm guessing you'll miss your gravity if you use the efficiency scaling that you outlined. The reason is that your 62% is likely based on med gravity brews, and your efficiency will suffer as the OG goes up. Have you done no sparge brews with pre-boil gravities this high before? There are variables unique to everyones system and process that the formulas can't account for, so it's hard to say which one will get you closer to your goal. Sorry I couldn't be more help.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2011, 08:47 PM   #3
944play
Recipes 
 
Jul 2008
Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 2,726
Liked 46 Times on 41 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanMoore View Post
The reason is that your 62% is likely based on med gravity brews, and your efficiency will suffer as the OG goes up.
Illustrated, by Kai Troester:
__________________
OD: ?
Pri:-
Keg: Simple AIPA (2-row, Chinook, Cascade, WLP090)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2011, 10:46 PM   #4
JuanMoore
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
The Old Pueblo
Posts: 21,629
Liked 3656 Times on 3480 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by 944play View Post
Illustrated, by Kai Troester:
A picture is worth a thousand words...

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2011, 12:25 AM   #5
McCue
Recipes 
 
Jan 2011
Hamilton, MT
Posts: 8

That is a great graph, where did it come from? You guys are right, 62% is for medium gravity brews and I haven't ever done something this high before. On the graph I'm assuming that the gravity it's talking about it pre boil gravity. In that case it seems to suggest higher efficiencies than most people usually get. For example the pre boil gravity in this case is around 1.070 and the graph shows efficiency of around 80% for a single batch sparge. The JZ recipie uses a fly sparge which should be higher than batch and he's only predicting 66%. Any idea why the big difference? I understand that the conclusion is still the same. If I'm getting 62% with pre boil gravities around 1.040 then I'll get less at 1.070 and that's why I should use the "long way" calc even though thats too much grain for my mash tun. I guess I'll just do a smaller batch.



 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Head Spinning: Fly Sparge, Batch Sparge, Hybrid Fly Sparge williamgardner All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 13 02-08-2010 04:07 PM
Batch sparge temp calculation question. Schnitzengiggle All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 19 09-03-2009 10:54 PM
No Sparge Calculation Trouble cmdrico7812 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 08-12-2009 02:01 PM
recipe calculation mcwiehler All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 06-16-2009 11:08 PM
Efficiency Calculation Jayfro21 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 11-18-2007 05:00 PM


Forum Jump