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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > How many times is to many?
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:49 AM   #1
5oclocksomewhere
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Default How many times is to many?

Meant too not to....I'm a big fan of 1056, and I have harvested & washed the yeast from couple batches and noticed that after two times around my fementation is slower to act and less vigorus. I don't know if the cooler New England temps (65-69 inside) have any thing to do with it or a sign they're getting tired?? I am using a good size starter too...

I have heard that after 4 times the strain starts to mutate and is no longer the actual 1056? Any thoughts?

I know, someone is going to tell me to use the search function before posting threads...



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Old 10-17-2011, 06:42 AM   #2
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general rule is 6 months or 6 generations.

have hear of 12 months and many generations, but not sure how many.

I think after six months and x brews, it might be a good idea to go back to the source, or start slanting.


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Old 10-17-2011, 07:04 AM   #3
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Unless I am very much mistaken, 1056 is the same yeast as safale s-05. Why even try to push that yeast past two or three generations when it is SO cheap and easy to buy it dry?
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:08 PM   #4
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First of all, thank you for fixing that "too", huge pet peeve of mine. Ok, now to yeast. In general 6 generations is the rule, however, there are a few factors here. Lower temps will, in general, mean slower fermentation. Also, you want to try and go from smaller beers (lower OGs) to bigger beers (higher OGs). If you started off the yeast with a wee heavy, it would be totally spent if you tried to use it again in, say, an APA.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:49 PM   #5
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I'm of the opinion that yeast mutate after every generation or use. You just aren't aware of the changes and it's not until later down the road the things can turn ugly. Of course this all depends on your yeast handling practices.
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:04 PM   #6
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IMO a lot depends on how you are re-using the yeast, washing, havesting, propagating or just pitching on the cake and how steril....not how sanitary, you are. All considered, if you are using viable yeast and making a starter you should not be having problems with your ferment....maybe an off flavor final product. What are you doing as far as collecting anf re-using?
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:15 PM   #7
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I am collecting from the primary, washing with boiled and cooled water, refrigerating and adding to starter 3 day pre brew at room temp.
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5oclocksomewhere View Post
I am collecting from the primary, washing with boiled and cooled water, refrigerating and adding to starter 3 day pre brew at room temp.
Seems like there are plenty of possibilities.
First with 1056 your temp is fine. It ranges basicly from 60 to 70 F. It may slow a little with cooler temps but should also work well. Perhaps you were fementing a little warm and getting a VERY active fermentation and now compairing to it.
Second 1056 is pretty low floc so it MAY not appear to be fermenting as well as a higher floc beer. Here you just have to trust you hydrometer.
Third, make sure that you are using at least a 1 Qt/L starter....sounds like you are. You can check Mr Malty calculator for more specific pitch rate by style but as a general rule 1 Qt does well except for Big Beers and Lagers.
Fourth, You might try cutting back to a 48 hour development of your starter to keep the yeast as viable as possible.
Fifth, when I pitch right away, harvesting from cake, I do not wash. I use one cup (as a general rule of practice) of the cleanest yeast I can scrape from the cake (get the middle section of the cake) and just add to the next batch. I do not wash but I also do not ever pitch right on to the old cake. Again you can check Mr Malty for pitch rate but the problem is not knowing the viability of the harvested yeast. (my 3rd generation 1056 started in 6 hours this past saturday with this technique)
Sixth, maybe you are already doing this but, I try to harvest at least four batches of yeast from a single cake when I am washing. That way I don't have to mess with the old cake or the back to back schedule for brewing every time. If I am harvesting from cake I NEVER go more than four generations.
Seven, there is lots of talk about how much is too much when harvesting. You need to consider not only how many generations but how old the yeast is as well. I believe this all is a matter of opinion and harvesting and storage technique. I re-use for 6 months and generaly not more than 4 generations but that is my preference and what I have found to work best for me. I know others go more more and pros go much much more. I will use harvested yeast for 6 to 12 months but I double my starter when I do that.
Not sure that will help a lot and for sure doesnt give a specific answer...but it is all that comes to mind.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:20 PM   #9
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Most discussions here have focused on harvesting from the cake. Has/does ayone split starters? Would that increase the storage time and/or generation count? I'm thinking make a 1L starter 24-48 hours, fridge to settle, discard beer, then add boiled, chilled water to the slurry, swirl, pour half into a sanitized storage container, add dme to the other half and create a pitching starter 24-48 hrs. Essentially bypassing harvesting from the cake. Never done a starter, so I'm just spouting off here. Feel free to point out how silly this is.


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