Sugars Sugars Sugars - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > Sugars Sugars Sugars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-05-2005, 11:22 PM   #1
cdew4545
Recipes 
 
Jul 2005
Posts: 33


I have a few coneptual questions abouts sugars....
I know a fair amount I already I suppose. I know about monosaccharides, disaccharides, etc. I also know that yeasts can only metabolize certain sugars as well.

1) are disaccharides the most complex sugars yeast can metabolize?
2) do yeasts react equally with mono/disaccharides and also the different isomers? or better...would pure maltose or pure sucrose would yield the same effect?
3) do yeasts metabolize all of the sugar in a batch of beer, or if there is an overloaded amount where metabolizing it all would take forever. (assuming you have enough yeast propagated already so as not to have a slow fermentation from the crabtree effect)
4) Does yeast only rely on sugar for fermentation? (if you throw so yeast in some water with dissolved table sugar will it produce alcohol? not that this experiment is worth anything)

anything else you feel like stating for knowledge purposes would be great.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2005, 03:25 PM   #2
Darth Konvel
 
Darth Konvel's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2005
Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,033
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


I'm going off the top of my head here:

Yeast metabolize monosaccharides better then disaccharides, which I was under the impression that they don't handle as well. I am unsure if different isomers of the above are handled differently by yeast or not, as I don't recall ever reading a comparison.

Yeast use oxygen or sugar to function. Once oxygen supply has run out, the yeast switch to anerobic function, producing CO2 and ethanol from sugars.

One nice thing is that with all-grain, you can control the ratios of the different sugars produced from the malted grains. Different mashing temperatures activate seperate enzymes, which in turn produce different suger molecules from the grain starches.

Here's a decent article from BYO that covers the different enzymes.


__________________
-LupusUmbrus
Up Next: ???



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 01:33 AM   #3
Sir Sudster
 
Sir Sudster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2005
Buda, Tx
Posts: 1,030
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts


Good post LupusUmbrus. This will help alot of AGer's.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2005, 12:23 PM   #4
SwAMi75
 
SwAMi75's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Mar 2005
Midwest City, OK
Posts: 2,478
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by LupusUmbrus
I'm going off the top of my head here:
Showoff.

Thanks for the article...I for one need to read up on those things. It's nice to know why we do the things we do.
__________________
May you go marching in three-measure time
Dressed up as asses, drunk to the nines
Swing from the rafters, shouting those songs
Gone unsung for far too long


 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 02:58 PM   #5
Darth Konvel
 
Darth Konvel's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2005
Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,033
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


After further research, it looks like my earlier assessment of how yeast react and use different types of sugars was partially incorrect.

Since alot of this relates better to the all grain process, and I have a related topic in the AG forums, I'm leaving a link here to that post.

Fermentability - mashing, the sugars produced, and how yeast eat them
__________________
-LupusUmbrus
Up Next: ???



 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2005, 05:44 PM   #6
david_42
 
david_42's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2005
Willamina & Oak Grove, Oregon, USA
Posts: 25,593
Liked 151 Times on 142 Posts


Yeasts will consume sugar until the alcohol content is too high for them to continue. Most ale yeasts "hit the wall" around 7-8% ABV. Wine yeasts can go as high as 15-16%. Saki and distiller's yeasts can handle 18-22% (I've seen claims of 24%, but not on a commercial product) An 8K distiller's yeast will eat its' way through 8KG of sucrose per 25 liters of water. In all cases, if there is sugar left over, there's sugar left over.

A distiller's yeast can live on water and sucrose, but a commercial yeast food can give you a better/faster ferment. I'm going to try some to finish my next batch of barley wine. I'll split the batch after the primary fermentation and use 8K on half and champaign yeast on the other half. Both a neutral yeasts, but the 8K should finish much faster.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2005, 05:48 PM   #7
Baron von BeeGee
Beer Bully
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Baron von BeeGee's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2005
Barony of Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 5,397
Liked 23 Times on 22 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by david_42
Most ale yeasts "hit the wall" around 7-8% ABV.
Is this independent of the pitching rate, or will a higher pitching rate help reach the higher abv's?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2005, 05:50 PM   #8
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2005
Cary, NC
Posts: 10,987
Liked 101 Times on 89 Posts


independent. the high alcohol content kills the yeast (or maybe it just shuts it down). Either way, the yeast stop working in those conditions, no matter how many of them are in there.

-walker
__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 01:10 PM   #9
The Happy Mug
 
The Happy Mug's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Nov 2005
Beautiful Colorado, USA!
Posts: 442

Two solutions to turn sugar into easily fermentable sugar:

Alpha-amylase enzymes will break down the unfermentable sugars to make sure that everything is fermentable. Of course, these may take up to three hours to completely work at below 140 degrees. Above 140 deactivates them.

Koji (Apsergillus Oryzae) is used to make japanese rice wine, and will convert sugars in ten-twenty minutes at 100 to 120 degrees.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2005, 02:04 PM   #10
Darth Konvel
 
Darth Konvel's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2005
Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,033
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by The happy mug
Two solutions to turn sugar into easily fermentable sugar:

Alpha-amylase enzymes will break down the unfermentable sugars to make sure that everything is fermentable. Of course, these may take up to three hours to completely work at below 140 degrees. Above 140 deactivates them.

Koji (Apsergillus Oryzae) is used to make japanese rice wine, and will convert sugars in ten-twenty minutes at 100 to 120 degrees.
You're on the right track there.

Beta-amylse gives you you're most fermentable wort, optimal temps ranging from 140 - 149 degrees. Only catch is that it requires the starches to be broken down a little before it can work on them.

Alpha-amylse produces you unfermentable sugars. It also does the initial breaking down of starches required by Beta. Optimal temps are around 154 - 159 degrees.

Note that both enzymes are active outside their optimal temp ranges, but do not work as quickly.


__________________
-LupusUmbrus
Up Next: ???



 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sugars piznaz Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 03-17-2009 09:11 PM
Sugars will_cbe Cider Forum 4 06-21-2008 12:36 AM
using different sugars for priming? Steiner Bottling/Kegging 1 11-02-2007 10:23 PM
Sugars? bloomerjt07 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 9 01-15-2007 05:58 AM
I want more sugars! Orfy All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 01-01-2007 08:34 PM


Forum Jump