Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Open to All!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > DIY Projects > Brew Stands > Electrical help for last phase
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-03-2007, 04:14 PM   #1
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket science
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewpastor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Posts: 4,580
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts

Default Electrical help for last phase

I am almost finished with my switch and heater project. I have a 240 GFCI in place, and all the wiring finished except for my 2 pole switch and Rancho controller. And I need help with these.



My set up is 240. The rig plugs into a 60 amp circuit. On the rig I have a secondary circuit box with a 50 amp GFCI in it. This runs off to be split so that the 110 V pump and outlet gets power and the 240 V water heater element gets power. The 2 pole switch and controller are in-line with this heater. the 240 goes to the switch, then the controller and then the heater.

An electrician friend is going to come and give everything the once over, but I have worked it out with him that I will have all the pieces in place so he doesn't have to take too much time with it.

But I am not clear how the wire the switch or the controller and need help. Any takers?


__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.
Brewpastor is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 04:22 PM   #2
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 14,129
Liked 693 Times on 442 Posts
Likes Given: 75

Default

This seems to be pretty clear - let me know if you need more explanation. Looking good, BP!



__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc

Yuri_Rage is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 04:37 PM   #3
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket science
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewpastor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Posts: 4,580
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
This seems to be pretty clear - let me know if you need more explanation. Looking good, BP!

And so my assumption is that I will run one of my positive lines and my nuetral/common line (leaving the second positive line out of this loop). Correct?

What then about the 2 pole switch? Attach both of the positives and by-pass with the common?
__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.
Brewpastor is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 04:46 PM   #4
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 14,129
Liked 693 Times on 442 Posts
Likes Given: 75

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewpastor
And so my assumption is that I will run one of my positive lines and my nuetral/common line (leaving the second positive line out of this loop). Correct?
If you run only one hot line + common through the Ranco, you will power it with 120VAC. It will work, but you'll have to get that other hot line to your load somehow. If you run one hot + common to the Ranco, and the other hot + common to the load, you'll constantly have 120VAC at each, with 240VAC available when the Ranco switches - probably not what you want.

I'd probably run both hot lines through the Ranco and to the load, skipping the common (how most welders are wired, and how the diagram shows it). Just make sure everything is well grounded.

I hope this isn't too confusing...re-reading it makes me want to word it differently, but I'm not sure how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewpastor
What then about the 2 pole switch? Attach both of the positives and by-pass with the common?
That's what I would do. It's good use of a DPDT switch - switching all possible current paths from a 240VAC source.
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc

Yuri_Rage is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:07 PM   #5
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket science
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewpastor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Posts: 4,580
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
If you run only one hot line + common through the Ranco, you will power it with 120VAC. It will work, but you'll have to get that other hot line to your load somehow. If you run one hot + common to the Ranco, and the other hot + common to the load, you'll constantly have 120VAC at each, with 240VAC available when the Ranco switches - probably not what you want.

I'd probably run both hot lines through the Ranco and to the load, skipping the common (how most welders are wired, and how the diagram shows it). Just make sure everything is well grounded.

I hope this isn't too confusing...re-reading it makes me want to word it differently, but I'm not sure how.


That's what I would do. It's good use of a DPDT switch - switching all possible current paths from a 240VAC source.
So, what the diagram shows as a common is actually the second positive, and the neutral bypasses the controller, as does the ground and proceeds to the heating element where everything is attached?
__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.
Brewpastor is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:19 PM   #6
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 14,129
Liked 693 Times on 442 Posts
Likes Given: 75

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewpastor
So, what the diagram shows as a common is actually the second positive, and the neutral bypasses the controller, as does the ground and proceeds to the heating element where everything is attached?
Yes - the second "leg" of the 240VAC source (on the right) connects to the post labeled "COM" on the controller.
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc
Yuri_Rage is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:42 PM   #7
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 14,129
Liked 693 Times on 442 Posts
Likes Given: 75

Default

One more thing:

If your switched components require a connection to common, I suggest using the Ranco to trip a 240VAC DPDT relay (sometimes called a contactor). That way you won't have any stray current coming from that constantly hot leg.

Links to parts (I'll edit as I find them):
10A DPDT relay from Jameco
20A DPDT relay from DigiKey
30A DPDT relay from ABS Alaskan
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc

Yuri_Rage is online now
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:48 PM   #8
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket science
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewpastor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Posts: 4,580
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts

Default

Very cool and very easy.

Oh this is going to be a great addition to my set-up! Mobile, thermostatically controlled, electric heat for whatever purpose there may be: heating mash water, RIM, modivating the kids...
__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.
Brewpastor is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:53 PM   #9
Monster Mash
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Castaic, CA
Posts: 1,323
Liked 88 Times on 69 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
One more thing:

If your switched components require a connection to common, I suggest using the Ranco to trip a 240VAC DPDT relay (sometimes called a contactor). That way you won't have any stray current coming from that constantly hot leg.

Links to parts (I'll edit as I find them):
10A DPDT relay from Jameco
20A DPDT relay from DigiKey
30A DPDT relay from ABS Alaskan

I agree with this also, run 120v to the controller to switch a 240v relay. Its a much safer way to go.

I wanted to control the 240v element seperately from the pump but run them both from the same controller. I ran 120v to the controller and bought 120v powered relays to switch both 120v and 240v.

I used SPDT switches to switch from the heating element to the pump or run both at the same time.

Relays will give you more flexability for switching multiple things.
__________________
My 1BBL Brewery Pics

Monster Mash is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:56 PM   #10
Brewpastor
Beer, not rocket science
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewpastor's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Corrales, New Mexico
Posts: 4,580
Liked 32 Times on 28 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
One more thing:

If your switched components require a connection to common, I suggest using the Ranco to trip a 240VAC DPDT relay (sometimes called a contactor). That way you won't have any stray current coming from that constantly hot leg.

Links to parts (I'll edit as I find them):
10A DPDT relay from Jameco
30A relay from ABS Alaskan
I think it is set up for just the 2 "hot" legs. It has 4 connections plus a ground connection. Two on each side, bottom screws are black, top screws are brass, the ground is green. I am figuring it is one hot in on each side (bottom) two hots out on each side (at the top).


__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.
Brewpastor is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Attenuative phase radtek General Techniques 4 04-24-2009 04:40 PM
Keggin Phase 1 Dionysos911 Bottling/Kegging 15 01-08-2009 11:45 PM
Phase 2 system PLC panel kladue Brew Stands 14 12-17-2007 06:32 PM
2 phase wiring help Brewpastor Brew Stands 12 03-01-2007 02:31 AM
just finished phase one! chainsawbrewing General Beer Discussion 5 02-25-2007 07:05 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS