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Old 08-10-2011, 04:13 AM   #11
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Can't find my source on this ATM, but IIRC flemish beers are traditionally racked off the yeast whereas lambic are left on it. However, I brewed a beer with Roselare ~6 months ago and have left it in primary. You won't have any ill effects from autolysis because the brett can metabolize dead sacch without causing bad flavors.

Everything I've read has indicated that each reuse of a Roselare yeast cake will result in a more sour beer than the previous.

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 01:04 PM   #12
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How many uses do you think you can get from the yeast cake before it would produce to sour of a beer?

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebawilson View Post
How many uses do you think you can get from the yeast cake before it would produce to sour of a beer?
I would suspect that if you used a fresh sacc yeast each time and only used a small amount of the cake, you could keep the sourness under control.

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 02:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calebawilson View Post
How many uses do you think you can get from the yeast cake before it would produce to sour of a beer?
I'm re-pitching my roeselare for the 3rd time this morning (this time into a oud bruin).

The second batch of flanders I did came out very similar to the first - which is to say, great! So I'd say you can definately get away with 2.

I was hoping just the opposite was true - that each successive batch would get less sour, since I thought the yeast would overtake the bacteria. Dunno.
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by passedpawn View Post
I'm re-pitching my roeselare for the 3rd time this morning (this time into a oud bruin).

The second batch of flanders I did came out very similar to the first - which is to say, great! So I'd say you can definately get away with 2.

I was hoping just the opposite was true - that each successive batch would get less sour, since I thought the yeast would overtake the bacteria. Dunno.
Bacteria reproduces at a faster rate than yeast so you'll end up with successively more sour batches.

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:27 PM   #16
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.....in ideal growth media. The dextrines left in wort is not idea. The bacteria lives off the brettanomyces ability to liberate glucose molecules from the complex carbohydrates. I think the reason the bacteria continue to grow in each successive batch is just that each batch has a higher proportion of bacteria compared to the original blend. So instead of 1mil/ml there is like 1.5 in the second and 2mil/ml in the third. With out a correction of additional yeast the blend gets out of balance and becomes bacteria dominant. That's my understanding of the bacterial interaction with brett in these fermentations at least.
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Old 11-06-2011, 05:29 PM   #17
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Also I did not add any additional sac only the blend.

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:09 PM   #18
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I pitched S-05 this morning in my 1.080 (!!!) flanders brown. Will pitch the roeselare in a few days. Probably need to dilute it a bit also, after the krausen subsides. I was shooting for 1.070.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
.The bacteria lives off the brettanomyces ability to liberate glucose molecules from the complex carbohydrates. I
any source for this??

The reason I ask is that brett alone will not super-attenuate, however in conjunction with the pedio/lacto/etc is will, so I'd be hesitant to say that the brett is the reason the bacteria continue to grow

I think the bacteria also come to dominate because as they lower the pH it become more and more inhospitable to the sacch

 
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I think the bacteria also come to dominate because as they lower the pH it become more and more inhospitable to the sacch
Conversely, doesn't the beer become more inhospitable for the bacteria as the alcohol level increases?
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