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Lucky137

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Hey all,

I've wanted to brew my own beer for awhile, but never had the time/funds until a few weeks back. I went to my local homebrew store (I believe that's LHBS for short?) and purchased everything I needed, including ingredients for an american pale ale. The boil went great (incredible smells!) and it quickly fermented to around 5.5% ABV. It was recommended to me to ferment it in a primary fermenter for 7-10 days, and then transfer it to a glass carboy for another week or so before bottling. I ended up doing about 8 days primary, 7 in the secondary, and then I bottled.

My beginners book said that bottles will be ready to drink within a week for the impatient, so I figured I'd pop one open at this point to see where I was at. Unfortunately, it was barely carbonated at all. I've been reading up on possible reasons why, and here's what I found:

1) Not enough priming sugar: I added all the sugar to the wert before bottling, a total of 2/3 c corn sugar in a 4.33 gallon batch, so I don't think this was the issue.

2) Yeast is dead: I used only no-rinse sanitizer (which I'm assuming doesn't kill yeast, or else you'd have to rinse it), so I'm hoping (fingers crossed!) that it's not this either. Also, when I opened the bottle, there was a noticeable hiss (technical term?), albeit a quite small one, which unless I'm mistaken, can only result from some fermentation.

3) Temperature is not right: I'm storing the bottles in the same location as where I had my wert, which stayed pretty consistently at 64 degrees F during fermentation, though it is possible that it might be slightly colder now.

Also, I had a question: am I correct in assuming that there should be enough yeast floating around in the beer (i.e., not settled on the bottom) to prime after bottling? I tried to be super diligent about leaving every speck of gunky-stuff on the bottom of both of my fermenters, and I'm hoping that wasn't to a fault.

Anyway, thanks for any future input. This is my first every homebrew experience, so I know nothing about anything. Just want it to turn out well!


Thanks,

Nico M.
 
4) Bad information....

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.


Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)

Lazy Llama came up with a handy dandy chart to determine how long something takes in brewing, whether it's fermentation, carbonation, bottle conditioning....

chart.jpg


If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.
 
You're way too early. Give it at least 3 weeks, that's 21 full days, in the bottle.
 
Beer can take up to 21 days to carbonate in bottles, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. If your beer fermented then the yeast are alive and well!

Bottle carbing should take place at 70 degrees, so try and move them to a slightly warmer area if possible.

Also, C02 is absorbed by the beer MUCH better at lower temps, so on the next one you pop open to test try to refrigerated it 48 hours before you sample it!
 
Wow, "Bad Information" is putting it lightly I think... Thanks so much for all of the quick responses! I guess I'll go ahead and let it age awhile more.

About the temperature, is it just related to the speed of fermentation? Or are there other qualities that this variable can affect?


Thanks again,

Nico M.
 
The 70 degrees is about fermentation (the little bit that occurs when you add the priming sugar). After that is complete the beer absorbs c02 better when cold, so the carbonation moves from the headspace in the bottle to disolved in the liquid.
 
I think the biggest question is,when you "added all the priming sugar" was it just dumped in? or did you mix it with 2C of boiling water in the bottling bucket? Exactly how did you add the priming sugar?
 
I think the biggest question is,when you "added all the priming sugar" was it just dumped in? or did you mix it with 2C of boiling water in the bottling bucket? Exactly how did you add the priming sugar?

Goo point made here. Along the same lines...did you mix the solution sufficiently before bottling?
 
My brother had the same problem with his Brewers Best Red Ale. It was sitting in the basement bottled @65 and not carbing though it would slightly hiss upon opening. We brought it upstairs where it's 71 F and viola! Houston, we got head. This was 3 days @ 71.
 
My brother had the same problem with his Brewers Best Red Ale. It was sitting in the basement bottled @65 and not carbing though it would slightly hiss upon opening. We brought it upstairs where it's 71 F and viola! Houston, we got head. This was 3 days @ 71.

Reminds me of the 1st beer I bulk primed,my APA. Bottled it up,& 11 days flat,it was very ready,even after being in to fridge for a day. but the ones still in boxes were even better in the coming weeks. I used the o2 barrier caps as well,which def helps at no more than a dollar more per bag.
By the way,concerning the o2 barrier caps,here's a good one from a member of the cooper's site from over here. He claims to have read that rinsing in water,or sanitizing the o2 caps activates them,thus messing up their o2 barrier qualities.
I wonder if anyone here has any info as to the truth of that one???
I've been soaking them in star-san till they go on a bottle.?...
 
I think the biggest question is,when you "added all the priming sugar" was it just dumped in? or did you mix it with 2C of boiling water in the bottling bucket? Exactly how did you add the priming sugar?

I disolved it in 2c of boiling water and put in the bottom of my empty fermenter, then siphoned the brew from my glass carboy into the syrup at the bottom. I was told that this would be sufficient to mix it in, and would prevent too much oxygenating.

Thanks so much.
 
That's good,as long as the siphon tube went to the bottom of the fermenter bucket. It creates a swirling action as the beer fills up. I pour the priming sugar slowly into the stream at the surface. When completed,I stir gently about 12 times to be sure it's mixed. I put together a separate pale of some 7G with a big opening on the inside of the spigot,& a small spout that fits my 3/8" tube for the bottling wand.
 
To all who helped me with my question, I sincerely appreciate it. I'm feeling a hundred times better about my very first batch and I hope it turns out well.

I just want to say that this is not the first forum that I have ever been to, and believe it or not, I am aware that forums have search functions - as I'm sure most other first-time, pannicky poster/homebrewers are as well. As the rest of you seasoned individuals (both in respect to homebrewing and this wonderful forum) know, your first batch is not exactly a perfect experience. You've been told to sanitize everything, follow a detailed schedule of when to add what, taught about fermenting, yeast, extracts, etc. - an enormous amount of information. In addition, it's not a cheap hobby to start out, seeing as I've already spent over $300 so far. So although I very much apologize for not doing a search before posting this thread (something that, I admit, I often do without thinking), please understand my concern for my first batch very much clouded my thought on the matter. Furthermore, it is my personal opinion that simply stating the existence of a search function or sticky without providing a link, some direction, or a hint as other sections to brose in is relatively unhelpful.

Sorry this was so long winded. Again, thank you very much for all the help, I'm excited to stick around and learn all I can about this incredible hobby!


Nico M.
 
No sweat,man. We all are like expectant parents (how PC of me!) on our 1st batch. I agree,it's a lot of info to assimilate. But it'll all become clear rather quickly when you get to the point of sampling the fruits of your labors. then you go on reading on here,& many things start becoming clearer. Then you get enough brews under your belt,as you keep thinking forward,you start loosing count of how many you've done.
Then the beers start getting pretty good,you start buying more stuff,....You see where this is going. Did I mention this "hobby" is addicting?...
 
I have my bottles conditioning at 72-73. It has been 7 days since bottling and they are carbed nicely. They still need to be conditioned though. That being said, I have drank 6 over the past few days and it is quite good. I just bottled my Litehaus Wheat today.

There is a calculator that is handy for determining the quantity of sugar needed for the type of beer that was brewed. http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

Boil your water and sugar. Add half to the bottom of your bottling bucket and then fill. Half way through, gently add the rest. After all the beer has been transferred to the bucket, very gently stir to evenly distribute the priming mix.


I have a hypothesis about this whole patience/waiting thing. I am guessing that all or most new brewers drink their brew too early. As they become more experienced and have home brew on hand to drink, the successive batches are allowed to ferment and condition longer because they have brew to get them through. At least that's my plan!!! :cross:

I know at 21 days my APA is better than any BMC product! I can't wait to see what it's like in a couple more weeks.
 
To all who helped me with my question, I sincerely appreciate it. I'm feeling a hundred times better about my very first batch and I hope it turns out well.

I just want to say that this is not the first forum that I have ever been to, and believe it or not, I am aware that forums have search functions - as I'm sure most other first-time, pannicky poster/homebrewers are as well. As the rest of you seasoned individuals (both in respect to homebrewing and this wonderful forum) know, your first batch is not exactly a perfect experience. You've been told to sanitize everything, follow a detailed schedule of when to add what, taught about fermenting, yeast, extracts, etc. - an enormous amount of information. In addition, it's not a cheap hobby to start out, seeing as I've already spent over $300 so far. So although I very much apologize for not doing a search before posting this thread (something that, I admit, I often do without thinking), please understand my concern for my first batch very much clouded my thought on the matter. Furthermore, it is my personal opinion that simply stating the existence of a search function or sticky without providing a link, some direction, or a hint as other sections to brose in is relatively unhelpful.

Sorry this was so long winded. Again, thank you very much for all the help, I'm excited to stick around and learn all I can about this incredible hobby!


Nico M.

I wouldn't apologize for not using the search function. While I do use it regularly (and this site does have a good search function) just think if all anyone did was search ad nauseam so as to not post a repeat question then this forum could get stagnant.

I typically search and read many threads and then compare info. I think we can all empathize with your concerns. You have invested money, and there are all kinds of variables at play. Best of luck and I'm sure your brew will be good and tasty.:mug:
 
I use the priming calculator at;http://www.brewheads.com/priming.php
It takes into account different sugars/syrups,etc.temp,gravity,amount of beer. Everything you need to know to calculate the amount of priming sugar by weight.

The thing I like about the one I posted is that it shows the preferred levels of CO2 for the different types of beer for noobs like me.
 
I disolved it in 2c of boiling water and put in the bottom of my empty fermenter, then siphoned the brew from my glass carboy into the syrup at the bottom. I was told that this would be sufficient to mix it in, and would prevent too much oxygenating.

Thanks so much.

thats what I was told also, but I swear my first few batches had some pretty inconsistant carbing issues ... now I rack on top of sugar and then place my racking cane in the bottling bucket and use it to gently stir .. I stir right away and then after about every 12 beers or so .. now all my beers seem to have very consistant carbing .. and no oxidation problems to my knowlege.
 
that's a good idea about stirring every 12 or so beers.

I try to never sample a beer until atleast 2 weeks, but 3 weeks is preferred. This hobby is really about patience. Patience will make your beer better. Even when the beer is carbed, it may not be ready to drink. The yeast needs to finish the job.3 weeks is a good time to wait.
 
that's a good idea about stirring every 12 or so beers.

I try to never sample a beer until atleast 2 weeks, but 3 weeks is preferred. This hobby is really about patience. Patience will make your beer better. Even when the beer is carbed, it may not be ready to drink. The yeast needs to finish the job.3 weeks is a good time to wait.

It's not a good idea whatsoever unless you like cardboard beers. You run the risk of oxygenating the beer that way.

You don't need to stir your priming, the sugar solution and the beer mixes fine on it's own when you're racking the beer on top of it.

Honestly most folks fail to realize is that most of those supposed "uneven carbonation" issue threads when you follow up like I do, since I probably have answered a few more carbonation questions than all of you combined, is that MOST of those folks who are complaining about uneven carbonation are opening their beer prior to the 3-6 weeks that we recommend on here, and upon followup, after we tell them to wait a few more weeks, most of them come back and say ALL the remaining bottles are perfectly fine.

It's a ridiculous notion not to believe that 2 mere cups of liquid are not going to be dilluted by the mere action of the UPWARD swirling of the beer as it is racked on top of it, and rises in the bottling bucket.

You'll find that most folks who have "inconsistant" carbonation when we pursue it further it turns out they're opening their bottles too soon. It's quite easy to blame or assume it's because of something, rather than the truth.

I personally believe the whole "priming sugar didn't get mixed" argument is BS, if you put the sugar solution in the bottom of the bucket and racked your beer, then it couldn't help but be mixed. You're putting 2 tiny cups of liguid into a vessel and dumping 5 gallons into it and the beer is rising as it fills the bucket...believe me, it is mixing.

Most of the time when a beer is acting weired, it's just that it's not fully carbed yet. And if you're below 70, or were below 70 for any period of time during the 3weeks, then the beer hasn't fully carbed yet.

Inconsistant carbonation, simply means that they are not ready yet. If you had opened them a week later, or even two, you never would have noticed. Each one is it's own little microcosm, and although generally the should come up at the same time, it's not an automatic switch, and they all pop on.

A tiny difference in temps between bottles in storage can affect the yeasties, speed them up or slow them down. Like if you store them in a closet against a warm wall, the beers closest to the heat source may be a tad warmer than those further way, so thy may carb/condition at slightly different rates. I usually store a batch in 2 seperate locations in my loft 1 case in my bedroom which is a little warmer, and the other in the closet in the lving room, which being in a larger space is a tad cooler, at least according to the thermostat next to that closet. It can be 5-10 degrees warmer in my bedroom. So I usually start with that case at three weeks. Giving the other half a little more time.

Bottom line, it's not that the sugar's not mixed, it's just that they all haven't come up to full carb yet....Three weeks is not the magic number for finality, it's the minimum time it takes....

How many of you read every thread, and bother to look up the results of threads you've answered in the Past? I PURPOSEFULLY remained subscribed to all the treads I answered questions in. So whether it's the next day or a thread I posted in 4 years ago, if it pops up in my user's CP I follow up.

And guys, just like "infection" threads turn out to be non-issues, a high number of these supposed "inconsistant" carbonation threads turn out to end the same way with the rest of the bottles perfectly carbed.

Just because you open a bottle too soon and it's not carbed while another bottle you grabbed IS carbed, doesn't mean there's something wrong....

I have never stirred my priming sugar in a batch of beer, and I have never had a beer, that when I waited sufficiently long enough, has not been CONSISTANTLY carbed from bottle to bottle. I've had plenty that the first one hasn't been carbed, but then I don't go an open any more beers right away I usually give it another week and try again. But once that first beer is carbed, and it's been 3-6 weeks since I've bottled, I've never had the rest of them NOT perfectly carbed.

But hey, if stirring keeps you warm at night....have at it...but if you open your bottles too soon (and too soon can be 6 months for some beers) and they still aren't carbed up- then what are you going to blame?

But don't stir more than once if you do.
 
You don't need to stir your priming, the sugar solution and the beer mixes fine on it's own when you're racking the beer on top of it.

ok then ... I'll just stir once then .. I really thought my issues were due to the sugar not being mixed in well enough, but I'm sure you are right about this ... but waiting 3 weeks is really, really hard .. I am getting my pipe line going tho, so I'm sure I'll get to that point .. the beers I have made so far have all been better at 5 to 6 weeks old, than they were at 3 to 4 .. that is the truth ... :mug:
 
So, for those who have more experience.... How warm is 'too warm' for bottle conditioning an ale, in your opinion?
 
So, for those who have more experience.... How warm is 'too warm' for bottle conditioning an ale, in your opinion?

In the 90's I'd say. But really all "too warm" bottle conditioning MIGHT do (it's only conjecture) is cut down the long term shelf live of the beer. It MIGHT not cellar all that well, long term, MAYBE. But that's not a big deal if it's just the batches you're quaffing, that aren't going to last all that long anyway. No point in stressing out about it MAYBE making a beer go downhill in 6 months or 5 years, if you're gonna be pissing your batch down the toilet within a month.
 
So, for those who have more experience.... How warm is 'too warm' for bottle conditioning an ale, in your opinion?

And also, what of temperature fluctuation? I realized that my beer was sitting in about 62 F in my closet, so I moved it into my living room where it's more like 66 F. However, I'd be willing to bet that the living room temperature fluctuates a bunch more than the closet I had them in downstairs. Is this OK?

Thanks.
 
And also, what of temperature fluctuation? I realized that my beer was sitting in about 62 F in my closet, so I moved it into my living room where it's more like 66 F. However, I'd be willing to bet that the living room temperature fluctuates a bunch more than the closet I had them in downstairs. Is this OK?

Thanks.

It will just take a little longer. It's no big deal.
 
Well,with the conditioning temp thing,I basically agree. Since I started using o2 barrier caps,if they condition quickly,they don't fade as fast. But,rather,improve for,maybe 2-3 weeks longer. Then,the normal fading starts,albeit slowly. It seems bulk priming vs carb drops effects this as well. The bulk priming solution takes less time to work. I realize that should be obvious,but it didn't register with me till I did it for the 1st time.
 
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