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Old 07-13-2011, 07:53 PM   #1
SDBrewer
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Default Black IPA - Critique my recipe

I'm getting ready to brew my first black IPA this Saturday. Please critique my recipe. I'll be re-using SafAle 05 yeast that I harvested from a double IPA. 6 gallons. Should I drop the Crystal 120L?

Grain Bill:
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg L
72% 11 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
7% 1 0 Black (Patent) Malt 25 500 ~
7% 1 0 Cane Sugar 45 0 ~
7% 1 0 Crystal 120L 33 120 ~
3% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt 33 2 ~
3% 0 8 Vienna Malt 36 3 ~
2% 0 4 Roasted Barley 25 300 ~
15 4 Total pounds

Hops/Kettle Additions
use time oz variety form aa
boil 50 mins 1.0 Warrior pellet 18.0
boil 35 mins 1.0 Simcoe pellet 14.4
boil 20 mins 1.0 Citra pellet 11.0
boil 15 min 1 ea Whirlfloc Tablet
boil 5 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 4.0 Cascade pellet 5.5

Original Gravity
1.070 / 17.1 Plato
(1.063 to 1.073)
Final Gravity
1.019 / 4.8 Plato
(1.017 to 1.020)
Color
39 SRM / 78 EBC
(Black)
Mash Efficiency
75%

Bitterness
112.7 IBU / 18 HBU
: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.61

Alcohol
6.8% ABV / 5% ABW


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Old 07-13-2011, 09:22 PM   #2
DrinkNoH2O
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IMO a Black IPA shouldn't have all that roasted barley and black patent - you're basically just making a hoppy stout. I'd drop those (along with the dextrin and Vienna) and replace with a small portion (~5%) of Carafa III Special (dehusked).

The Stone SSRA grain bill (90% 2 row, 5 % Carafa III, 5% C60L) is perfect for the style. Also 113 IBUs to 6.8% ABV is a pretty extreme ratio. Might bump the ABV up to about 8% or decrease IBUs a little.

If you search, there are several thread regarding this topic. Hope this helps.


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Old 07-13-2011, 09:37 PM   #3
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I would drop the Black patent and roast as well. Most people use carafa special which is the de-husked variety. It doesn't give as bitter and acrid taste as regular black malt. some also use up to a pound of chocolate malt but I'm not a fan of this. I would keep Ibu high if you want that, but I personally would move the simcoe closer to the end of the boil to give more aroma and flavor, you wont get much other than bitterness @ 35 min. Hope that helps, I'm working on building a good India black ale as well so I will be checking back in.

Edit: I would look into the cold steeping method Gordon Strong advocates in his book if you are married to the Black Patent.
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #4
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Thanks for your input! How's this for a revamped recipe? I usually put CaraPils in to add in retention and body. I had to call around to a couple home brew stores to make sure I could get the Carafa III special.


malt & fermentables

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg L
81% 12 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
7% 1 0 Cane Sugar 45 0 ~
5% 0 12 Carafa Special III 30 525 ~
3% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt 33 2 ~
3% 0 8 Special B Malt 30 180 ~

hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 60 mins 1.0 Warrior pellet 18.0
boil 15 mins 1.0 Simcoe pellet 14.4
boil 10 mins 1.0 Citra pellet 11.0
boil 5 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 4.0 Cascade pellet 5.5

Original Gravity
1.068 / 16.6 Plato
(1.061 to 1.071)
Final Gravity
1.018 / 4.6 Plato
(1.016 to 1.020)
Color
31 SRM / 61 EBC
(Black)
Mash Efficiency
75%

Bitterness
94.0 IBU / 18 HBU
ƒ: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.38

Alcohol
6.7% ABV / 5% ABW
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:06 PM   #5
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OK, so now you need some more color. I would go with like 10%+ of Carafa III, no Special B. If you go with more then 10%, then make sure to add it only at the sparge, so you limit the chocolate and roasted flavors. Use a calculator to help w/ the color, BYO magazine has proposed guidelines for Black IPA (the color is 30+SRM): http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styl...adian-dark-ale
Actually, I would drop the Special B and Carapils as well. I like Carapils in my IPA, but the idea behind Black IPA is that you replace mouthfill with a VERY slight rostiness (you will get some roastiness no matter what you do). That's why they often use Pilsner Malt instead of a 2-row, just because it's slightly lighter in taste.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby_Brew View Post
OK, so now you need some more color. I would go with like 10%+ of Carafa III, no Special B. If you go with more then 10%, then make sure to add it only at the sparge, so you limit the chocolate and roasted flavors. Use a calculator to help w/ the color, BYO magazine has proposed guidelines for Black IPA (the color is 30+SRM): http://www.byo.com/stories/beer-styl...adian-dark-ale
Actually, I would drop the Special B and Carapils as well. I like Carapils in my IPA, but the idea behind Black IPA is that you replace mouthfill with a VERY slight rostiness (you will get some roastiness no matter what you do). That's why they often use Pilsner Malt instead of a 2-row, just because it's slightly lighter in taste.
Good article, this paragraph says it all:

"What differentiates Cascadian dark ale from a hoppy porter or stout? There are really three main differences. The first would be the basic hop profile. These beers are brewed using traditional IPA bittering, flavor and aroma hops with citrus, spice and floral characteristics. Typical hop selections would be Columbus, Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe and Cascade or hybrids of these like Warrior or Magnum. The second would be the vastly reduced roast malt flavor contributions. The use of debittered Carafa malts instead of black patent or roast barley. This provides color without the harsher, burnt flavor profiles of robust porters or stouts. And finally, the third is the much drier finish. This is achieved through the use of very little light caramel malts and highly attenuative yeasts."
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDBrewer View Post
I'm getting ready to brew my first black IPA this Saturday. Please critique my recipe. I'll be re-using SafAle 05 yeast that I harvested from a double IPA. 6 gallons. Should I drop the Crystal 120L?

Grain Bill:
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg L
72% 11 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
7% 1 0 Black (Patent) Malt 25 500 ~
7% 1 0 Cane Sugar 45 0 ~
7% 1 0 Crystal 120L 33 120 ~
3% 0 8 Dextrin (CaraPils) Malt 33 2 ~
3% 0 8 Vienna Malt 36 3 ~
2% 0 4 Roasted Barley 25 300 ~
15 4 Total pounds

Hops/Kettle Additions
use time oz variety form aa
boil 50 mins 1.0 Warrior pellet 18.0
boil 35 mins 1.0 Simcoe pellet 14.4
boil 20 mins 1.0 Citra pellet 11.0
boil 15 min 1 ea Whirlfloc Tablet
boil 5 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 4.0 Cascade pellet 5.5

Original Gravity
1.070 / 17.1 Plato
(1.063 to 1.073)
Final Gravity
1.019 / 4.8 Plato
(1.017 to 1.020)
Color
39 SRM / 78 EBC
(Black)
Mash Efficiency
75%

Bitterness
112.7 IBU / 18 HBU
: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.61

Alcohol
6.8% ABV / 5% ABW
Looks good to me, i might up the Vienna some, but very solid.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:08 AM   #8
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Here's another revision.

Scooby_Brew: I had the SRM at 31, but I bumped it to 34. Weyermann recommends only going as high as 5% with Carafa Speciall III special. I changed my recipe to 7%, but 10% seems to high considering Weyermann's specs. Thanks for the article from BYO. I didn't realize there are some actual style guidelines that are being set forth right now.

malt & fermentables
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg L
83% 12 0 American Two-row Pale 37 1 ~
7% 1 0 Carafa Special III info 30 525 ~
7% 1 0 Cane Sugar 45 0 ~
3% 0 8 Crystal 60L 34 60 ~
14 8
Batch size: 6.0 gallons


Original Gravity
1.067 / 16.4 Plato
(1.060 to 1.070)
Final Gravity
1.018 / 4.6 Plato
(1.016 to 1.019)
Color
34 SRM / 67 EBC
(Black)
Mash Efficiency
75%

hops
use time oz variety form aa
boil 45 mins 1.0 Warrior pellet 18.0
boil 15 mins 1.0 Simcoe pellet 14.4
boil 10 mins 1.0 Citra pellet 11.0
boil 5 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 4.0 Cascade pellet 5.5
Boil: 7.8 avg gallons for 70 minutes


Bitterness
89.9 IBU / 18 HBU
: Tinseth
BU:GU
1.34

yeast
Safale US-05 Dry Yeast
ale yeast in dry form with low to medium flocculation and 73% attenuation


Alcohol
6.5% ABV / 5% ABW
Calories
221 per 12 oz.

misc
use time amount ingredient
boil 15 min 1 ea Whirlfloc Tablet
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Old 07-15-2011, 06:24 AM   #9
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I'd certainly be interested in how yours turns out. I am just modifying another recipe from this site for a Black IPA (Heavenly Scourge). My recipe makes a few hop modifications to accomodate things on hand and replaces some of the 2Row with light DME since I am pushing the volume of my 7 gal brew kettle for my BIAB. See how you like it. Very similar to yours. A little higher alcohol.

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 6.00 US gals Wort Volume After Boil: 5.30 US gals
Volume Transferred: 5.00 US gals Water Added To Fermenter: 0.60 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 5.60 US gals Volume Of Finished Beer: 5.00 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.059 SG Expected OG: 1.082 SG
Expected FG: 1.021 SG Apparent Attenuation: 73.0 %
Expected ABV: 8.2 % Expected ABW: 6.4 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 97.3 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 35.9 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 1.18 Approx Color:
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 68 degF


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU When
US 2-Row Malt 11.00 lb 68.8 % 3.3 In Mash/Steeped
US Caramel 60L Malt 1.00 lb 6.3 % 10.1 In Mash/Steeped
German Carafa III 1.00 lb 6.3 % 88.4 In Mash/Steeped
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 3.00 lb 18.8 % 1.5 End Of Boil


Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
US Magnum 16.0 % 2.00 oz 85.7 Bagged Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
US Columbus(Tomahawk) 15.5 % 0.25 oz 10.4 Bagged Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
US Amarillo 5.0 % 2.00 oz 1.2 Bagged Pellet Hops 1 Min From End
US Centennial 8.5 % 0.50 oz 0.0 Bagged Pellet Hops At turn off
US Centennial 8.5 % 2.00 oz 0.0 Loose Whole Hops Dry-Hopped
US Amarillo 5.0 % 2.00 oz 0.0 Loose Whole Hops Dry-Hopped


Other Ingredients
Ingredient Amount When
Yeast Nutrient 0.11 oz In Boil
Irish Moss 0.11 oz In Boil


Yeast
White Labs WLP028-Edinburgh Scottish Ale
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:26 PM   #10
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the new recipe looks good. you're definitely going to get more than 73% attenuation from S-05, unless you're mashing high tho. i'd be surprised if you got <80%

nothing wrong with it, but id consider splitting the cascade dry hop with the simcoe or citra, unless you want cascade to totally dominate and the others to add subtlety.


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