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Old 07-11-2011, 09:22 AM   #1
Gordond
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Jan 2008
Reggio Emilia, Italy
Posts: 23


A quick question from a relative new-comer to cider brewing..some of you guys seem to go to extreme lengths keeping the cider fermentation at a controlled temperature.I keep mine at a max 24C (75 F) for primary is that too high ? what defects could this cause and what are the best temps for primary, secondary and conditioning ?

I use Youngs cider yeast
or Safale - S04
pasteurised apple juice, with lemon juice and malic acid.


Thanks for any help.
All the best
Gordon
Italy

 
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:02 AM   #2
oldmate
 
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You wouldn't want it too much higher than that. It can cause the production of longer alcohol chains called fusel alcohols (fusel - German for 'bad alcohol'). All fermentation produces a small amount of by-products other than ethanol but most commonly in very low concentrations. They will age out/break down if you choose to wait a longer period of time than usual otherwise you'll just get one almighty hangover the next day! The best temps are roughly between 60 and 70 but each strain is different. You should have a google of your yeast and see what temperature Safale recommends. Secondaring doesn't really matter what temperature you're at, but it wouldn't be too great to too high. Most people just keep it at a constant medium to low temperature for aging (eg. in a cellar, against an earth wall etc.).

Hope this helps.

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:53 AM   #3
Gordond
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Jan 2008
Reggio Emilia, Italy
Posts: 23

Thanks oldmate,

Ok i think I get it......wrong temperature equals fuse alcohols and possible hangovers (thought it was my age giving me more of those !)...though what about taste how does it affect the flavour of the cider..since I still have a lot of work to do on that side of things.. !

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:37 AM   #4
oldmate
 
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You'll usually find that it will be more 'harsh' tasting, as in drinking something which is high in % ABV. Sometimes the yeast can produce different off-tastes such as a buttery taste or a nail polish taste. Most of the time this is able to age out, but as I said before the higher you ferment at the longer you will need to age. Maybe try a small test batch at these temeperatures to see what it's like, or you can look at the threads on the first page, there's another thread already dedicated to fermenting at high temperatures. Here's the link direct to the thread http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/ferm...imates-256123/

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 02:12 PM   #5
Gordond
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Jan 2008
Reggio Emilia, Italy
Posts: 23

Yes I'll certainly fix the temperature in a fridge I have at around 60 F next batch and see if that gives me the results I'm looking for.

Thanks for the link...in truth I did see that post just after I posted mine..Italy gets rather warm in the Summer too !....not much info on there either though about recommended temps and resulting taste.....its an area that us cider guys have some difficulty pinning down I guess. Though this forum is turning out to be one of the best sources of info that I can find so I'm not moaning !!

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:05 PM   #6
smyrnaquince
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Dec 2010
Concord, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordond View Post
I use Youngs cider yeast
or Safale - S04
pasteurised apple juice, with lemon juice and malic acid.
Why are you adding the acid? Apple juice already has malic acid and I haven't found the need to add lemon juice.

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:17 PM   #7
Gordond
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Jan 2008
Reggio Emilia, Italy
Posts: 23

To compensate the sweetness of the apple juice to get it (hopefully) closer to a cider apple juice which are usually more acid. I go down to a pH of 3.1 which apparently is about where it should be.
Great in theory but the taste still isn't where I want it..its still too harsh (not helped by the fact that I'm letting it go dry). Will be trying some of the things I'm learning here like pasteurization and the like to see how it goes.
Any comments are appreciated though..!

 
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:45 PM   #8
HirosStorageUnit
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Jul 2011
Reno, NV
Posts: 12

I did a batch at really high temps (80s) a few years back and it was a bit harsh. What I did to combat this was at bottling I cut it with some boiled cheap apple juice to dilute it and it was as close to Woodchuck as I have ever got. IIRC the % was 8.5 after carbonation in the bottle. Ihave never been able to replicate it.

 
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Old 08-17-2011, 02:55 PM   #9
Gordond
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Jan 2008
Reggio Emilia, Italy
Posts: 23

Just a quick update..I'm completing my first test batch radically changing the temperature...what a difference...going from around 75-79 F to exactly 59 F (to see the difference going to the bottom end of the "recommended" range) the yeast has behaved totally differently.
The primary fermentation took 3 weeks instead of the usual week and the secondary another two. The taste is much better..fresh and much more what I've been looking for,.I wouldn't have believed it.

I'm not there yet but a huge step forward...thanks for the feedback HBT !

 
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