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Old 06-30-2011, 04:34 PM   #1
rod734
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Feb 2011
Jasonville, IN
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Wireing up a spa panel
Do you havee to havee 4 wires goin in to the panel? The reason I ask I because I have a Square D 200 amp service in the house with a 60 amp feed comming off that to a panel for my garage but it is just 3 wire. In my main box the neutral and ground lugs are connected so I dont understand why 4 wires. My spa panel is a Connecticut Electric and it shows a four wire instalation. Should I run a ground wire from my ground rod the make 4th wire.

well I kinda screwed this post up, I hit the wrong button

 
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:12 PM   #2
DeafSmith
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Disclaimer: I am not an electrician.

That said, here's how I wired my Home Depot spa panel, and it works (this is for 240 volt usage only).

*Incoming hot wires to the terminal blocks provided.
*Incoming ground to the neutral terminal block.
*Pigtail wire from the GFCI breaker to the neutral terminal block.
*Jumper wire from the neutral terminal block to the ground terminal block (the one attached directly to the box).
*Outgoing wires from the breaker (hots) and the ground terminal block (safety ground)

Note that if you wire it this way, it can only be used for 240 volts - you cannot tap off a hot to ground for a 120 volt supply - to do that you will have to have a 4-wire input.

 
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:11 PM   #3
rod734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafSmith View Post
Disclaimer: I am not an electrician.

That said, here's how I wired my Home Depot spa panel, and it works (this is for 240 volt usage only).

*Incoming hot wires to the terminal blocks provided.
*Incoming ground to the neutral terminal block.
*Pigtail wire from the GFCI breaker to the neutral terminal block.
*Jumper wire from the neutral terminal block to the ground terminal block (the one attached directly to the box).
*Outgoing wires from the breaker (hots) and the ground terminal block (safety ground)

Note that if you wire it this way, it can only be used for 240 volts - you cannot tap off a hot to ground for a 120 volt supply - to do that you will have to have a 4-wire input.
thats probably the reason this one requires a 4 wire input, because it has a 110 breaker built in the panel.

thanks

 
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:29 PM   #4
Maxkling
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There is a big difference between neutrals and grounds. Even though they are always tied together at the service. So you have 3 wires coming into your 60A service, just like you have 3 wires coming into your 200A service correct? You just need to tie in the neutral and ground on the bus at your 60A service if this is correct.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:24 PM   #5
rod734
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Feb 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxkling View Post
There is a big difference between neutrals and grounds. Even though they are always tied together at the service. So you have 3 wires coming into your 60A service, just like you have 3 wires coming into your 200A service correct? You just need to tie in the neutral and ground on the bus at your 60A service if this is correct.
I have the three wires comming in from my service, plus a grnd wire comming from my grnd rod, but the ground and the neutral are going to the same place in the 200 amp box. I dont understand the differance between neutral and ground. I can see that the neutral carries currant on the 110 circuit but it goes to ground. Do I need to iscolate my ground from my neutral in my main box and run a ground to my gfci to make it work properly.

 
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:09 PM   #6
Maxkling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rod734 View Post
I have the three wires comming in from my service, plus a grnd wire comming from my grnd rod, but the ground and the neutral are going to the same place in the 200 amp box. I dont understand the differance between neutral and ground. I can see that the neutral carries currant on the 110 circuit but it goes to ground. Do I need to iscolate my ground from my neutral in my main box and run a ground to my gfci to make it work properly.
No you don't need to isolate at the panel. I'm not sure what the actual code is on this. I know if the sub panel is outside the structure of the main panel, like a detached garage, another grounding rod must be installed.

I'm sure you'll be fine if you tie in the ground and neutral at the sub.

Heres a picture I kinda drew up, I'm not sure if I completely understand what your trying to do. So does this look right?

Sorry the pic looks like ass I'm using linux and the paint program isn't very good.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:02 AM   #7
P-J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rod734 View Post
...
I have a Square D 200 amp service in the house with a 60 amp feed comming off that to a panel for my garage but it is just 3 wire.
...
What you have in the sub panel is 240V and Neutral. This is very common in homes that were wired several years ago. A seperate ground was not run. Just consider an electric kitchen range. It's 240V 3 wire and it has many 120V devices in it. The stove chassis was grounded with a tab to frame through the neutral conductor. The NEC code changed to todays requirement in the 90's. This was done mostly to the implementation of GFCI breakers.

Here is how you would wire the Spa Panel (as Maxkling also illustrated):



Please keep in mind that the outbound neutral from the Spa Panel comes from the GFCI breaker - not - the neutral bus.

HTH

 
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:28 AM   #8
rod734
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Feb 2011
Jasonville, IN
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Ok thanks guys, I'll wire this thing up tomarrow and see how it goes

 
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