Coldbreak Brewing HERMS Giveaway!

HomeBrewSupply AMCYL Brew Kettle Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Extract Brewing > Grains & Steeping
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2011, 08:07 PM   #1
gtlaw10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hastings on hudson, ny
Posts: 287
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Grains & Steeping

I have been browsing the forum and have come across a number of conflicting opinions regarding traditionally mashed grains that are used as steeping/specialty grains and what, if any, contributions these questionable grains can contribute to your brew.
One of my most pressing questions would have to be whether steeping your grains at ~150F for an hour, followed by a sparge with ~170F water, would be considered a partial mash if you steeped a traditionally mashed grain with your traditional specialty grains?
If this is true, and I am looking for some serious experience to weigh in on this, then I was also curious about what potential contributions using 2-row(MO, etc), Munich, Vienna, Wheat, Biscuit, etc the brewer could harvest through the above method?
I've been steeping specialty grains forever and have been reluctant to include anything other than munich or other roasted traditionally mashed malts - the possibility of new flavor profiles would be fantastic!
Thanks in advance folks


__________________

On Deck ~ filthy mongrel;
Bottled ~ Abbot 12 - belgian dark strong; duesseldorf alt; honey nut brown; zombie puke - ABA; maori warrior - NZIPA

Creamy,thick,velvety head. - unionrdr
gtlaw10 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 10:40 PM   #2
malkore
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
malkore's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 6,922
Liked 34 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

if the base malt (2-row, wheat, MO, etc) is milled, then yes you could 'steep' it and actually get some conversion and fermentable sugars out of it. A mini-mash in a bag basically.

It would work. However...unless you're doing a real partial mash you're not going to get a lot of fermentables out of a pound or so of steeped 2-row. So all the extract will still end up darkening the beer.


__________________
Malkore
Primary: English Mild
On tap: Pale Ale, Lancelot's Wheat, English Brown Ale, Steam Beer, HoovNuts IPA
Bottled: MOAM, Braggot, Raspberry Melomel, Merlot, Apfelwein, Pyment, Sweet mead, Cabernet
Gal in 2009: 27, Gal in 2010: 34, Gal in 2011: 13, Gal in 2012: 10
malkore is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 07:06 AM   #3
gtlaw10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hastings on hudson, ny
Posts: 287
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

yea i read somewhere that it would primarily produce 'unfermentable' sugars/starches and can contribute to 'starch-haze' due to the temperature at which we commonly steep, ~150F.
would they add anything to the body of a brew? is there any truth to the unfermentable elements being the primary extract?
__________________

On Deck ~ filthy mongrel;
Bottled ~ Abbot 12 - belgian dark strong; duesseldorf alt; honey nut brown; zombie puke - ABA; maori warrior - NZIPA

Creamy,thick,velvety head. - unionrdr
gtlaw10 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 11:53 AM   #4
cervezarara
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Clevelandia, Ohio
Posts: 252
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I would tend to think holding base malt at ~150 for an hour is mashing. Make sure your water to grain ratio is between 1-1.5 qt./lb and rinse (sparge) those sugars off and check conversion with an iodine test. Call it mini mash or partial mash, that's exactly what you're describing.

So, all things being equal, mashing lower produces more fermentable sugars and mashing higher, more unfermantables (dextrines). 150 falls nearer the low end of the spectrum and thus you should have good conversion (of the base malt/slight for the specialty grains). I'm not sure where the starch haze would be coming from.

To add body, "mash" slightly higher, say 155F.
cervezarara is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 05:09 PM   #5
dcp27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 4,121
Liked 123 Times on 119 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

sounds like you should read this: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy...ng-pics-75231/
dcp27 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 06:17 PM   #6
gtlaw10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hastings on hudson, ny
Posts: 287
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

thanks for the replies everyone.
i have read deathbrewers thread many a time, his process is fantastic.
so 150 is the low end of the spectrum - and that will produce fermentable sugars versus those unfermentables - ok cool, thanks.
sounds like a whole new world may have opened up for me...sweet!!!
has anyone out there done this before, there must be...
__________________

On Deck ~ filthy mongrel;
Bottled ~ Abbot 12 - belgian dark strong; duesseldorf alt; honey nut brown; zombie puke - ABA; maori warrior - NZIPA

Creamy,thick,velvety head. - unionrdr
gtlaw10 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 07:17 PM   #7
dcp27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 4,121
Liked 123 Times on 119 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

i think im confused by what you're asking then, cuz it sounds basically like DB's aforementioned method, i.e BIAB. if you're talking about steeping a couple lbs in several gallons, then no it wont work well. it'll stretch the enzymes too thin and you won't get complete conversion and be left with some starches. if you keep it <2qts/lb, then you're actually mashing.
dcp27 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 07:26 PM   #8
Wyrmwood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 401
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 56

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtlaw10 View Post
I have been browsing the forum and have come across a number of conflicting opinions regarding traditionally mashed grains that are used as steeping/specialty grains and what, if any, contributions these questionable grains can contribute to your brew.
To address just this portion. In a steep (not a partial mash) there are grains that will not contribute fermentable sugars to your brew but indeed contribute flavor. In a typical extract recipe, the sugar/alcohol contribution is fairly negligible anyways, so flavor and color is primarily what the steeping grains provide, even though the crystals and a few others will contribute some sugars from a steep.

Really, in a typical extract recipe, it's maybe a 0.5% ABV difference at most. In my opinion, when you are doing an extract recipe, where 5 or more lbs of malt extract is used, "mashing" ~1 lb of specialty grains isn't worth the effort versus simply steeping it.
__________________
"Behold the rain which descends from heaven upon our vineyards, there it enters the roots of the vines, to be changed into wine, a constant proof that God loves us, and loves to see us happy." Ben Franklin
Wyrmwood is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 07:59 PM   #9
gtlaw10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hastings on hudson, ny
Posts: 287
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

indeed gents.
i guess the easiest way to boil down what i am asking is to say it like this, since i get most of my abv from the actual extract and not from the steeped grains, would adding base malts and mash-required grains to the steep bag contribute proteins for body and head, flavors, and/or color? from what you guys have been saying, it would appear that i can expect to get color and maybe some flavor from the more roasted mash-required grains, good to know.
i'm not looking to up the abv of my brews, if i want to do that i would simply add more extract. i want to use malts like vienna, munich, aromatic, victory, biscuit, etc for their flavorful proteins only - but i don't wanna mash them.
__________________

On Deck ~ filthy mongrel;
Bottled ~ Abbot 12 - belgian dark strong; duesseldorf alt; honey nut brown; zombie puke - ABA; maori warrior - NZIPA

Creamy,thick,velvety head. - unionrdr
gtlaw10 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2011, 08:09 PM   #10
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,745
Liked 1299 Times on 853 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Well, yes and no. Base grains like pils and generic 2-row pale malts in smaller percentages are going to be so close to the makeup of a light DME/LME that it won't do anything noticeable. However, base malts that have inherently more flavor like Vienna and Munich will absolutely change things. Of course, there are also Vienna and Munich based malt extracts that would do the same thing but......

Anyway, it's actually more detrimental to short-steep mash-required grains because you'll get much more starch than you really want in your brew.


__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
steeping grains cntry036 Extract Brewing 3 11-21-2010 04:13 AM
steeping grains vicratlhead51 Extract Brewing 5 10-20-2010 08:45 PM
Steeping grains Brewno Extract Brewing 12 10-27-2007 11:12 AM
Steeping grains rwillride17 Extract Brewing 11 11-02-2006 07:45 AM
Steeping grains sudsmonkey Extract Brewing 7 09-04-2005 05:58 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS