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Old 05-24-2011, 02:10 PM   #21
Randar
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Originally Posted by nickharbour View Post
Its actually the opposite, conditioned grain is less effective as a filter. The light fluffy grain allows for easier flow so you reduce your chances of a stuck sparge but you need to recirculate for a lot longer to get clear wort flowing.
I have not found that to be true whatsoever.

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 02:32 PM   #22
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I have not found that to be true whatsoever.
Bigger fluffier crush with more hulls suspended in the mash = lest small particles and partial hulls settled at the bottom = less dense mass at the bottom = more porous bottom = less effective filter.

We're not talking about a huge difference but it takes me about 1:30 to get a clear recirculation with conditioned malt as apposed to :30-1:00 with unconditioned.

Even if you argue that it filters the same as unconditioned I don't see how you can make the argument that conditioned malt improves the filtration.

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickharbour View Post
Bigger fluffier crush with more hulls suspended in the mash = lest small particles and partial hulls settled at the bottom = less dense mass at the bottom = more porous bottom = less effective filter.

We're not talking about a huge difference but it takes me about 1:30 to get a clear recirculation with conditioned malt as apposed to :30-1:00 with unconditioned.

Even if you argue that it filters the same as unconditioned I don't see how you can make the argument that conditioned malt improves the filtration.
Are you confusing "setting the grain bed" with "filtration" or am I?

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Randar View Post
Efficiency compared to LHBS? Yes. Efficiency compared to doing the crush myself on the same mill? Only a little. Getting a reliable and trustworthy crush from batch to batch? Hell yeah.

For some folks, though, the biggest benefit is in the filtering capability of the grain bed (and although I haven't tested this theory, I am guessing it helps conversion complete more quickly especially if you tighten the gap). The bigger and fluffier the hull output is the better your grain bed will be as a filter and the fewer rice hulls you'll have to add for things like wheats and ryes.

You don't have to spend $200 on a nice mill. You can get a barleycrusher with 7# hopper for $115+shipping, IIRC, just as one example. Plus you can buy in bulk, which is where the savings really start piling up.
I take it I'm in the minority here, but my LHBS has a decent, reliable mill. they've probably got the gap set a little open to sell more grain, but I am getting 80+% effciency regularly. I also buy in bulk, and weigh it at home, and take it in with me and crush it there when I'm getting brew day stuff hops, yeast, dextrose, etc. I know I'm in the minority and I've heard the horror stories about HBS's with mill gaps you could stick your finger through. I am sure also that I could get a little better eff. by crushing myself, but honestly being in the 80's I'm ok with.

True, I could buy a Barley Crusher, but I'm a go-big-or-go-home kinda guy. If I break down and buy one, I'm eyeing the MM3. Plus I'm motorizing, if I go there.

I am mostly curious about the other benefits - filtering, flavor, & extraction of malt that has been conditioned vs. un-conditioned malt.

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 04:35 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by nickharbour View Post
Its actually the opposite, conditioned grain is less effective as a filter. The light fluffy grain allows for easier flow so you reduce your chances of a stuck sparge but you need to recirculate for a lot longer to get clear wort flowing.
Complete and utter nonsense. You're living up to your user title with that post.


_

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:05 PM   #26
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Complete and utter nonsense. You're living up to your user title with that post.


_
I'm all ears. Explain to me how a light and fluffy grain filters out particles better than the denser settled grain bed of unconditioned malt in a vorlauf. Would love to learn because it seems counter-intuitive.

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamnave View Post
I take it I'm in the minority here, but my LHBS has a decent, reliable mill. they've probably got the gap set a little open to sell more grain, but I am getting 80+% effciency regularly. I also buy in bulk, and weigh it at home, and take it in with me and crush it there when I'm getting brew day stuff hops, yeast, dextrose, etc. I know I'm in the minority and I've heard the horror stories about HBS's with mill gaps you could stick your finger through. I am sure also that I could get a little better eff. by crushing myself, but honestly being in the 80's I'm ok with.
I think, as you noted, you are in the minority with being able to buy in bulk but crush at the LHBS and having a tight enough setting to get 8-+ efficiency. A couple online vendors have pretty reliable crushes, but I don't consider it worth the risk of going from 80-85% efficiency to 65% and not being able to have any recourse once the grain is sitting in my MT. Also, you have a very convenient LHBS to your residence as well I take it!

But, cheers on the nice situation you have!

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by nickharbour View Post
I'm all ears. Explain to me how a light and fluffy grain filters out particles better than the denser settled grain bed of unconditioned malt in a vorlauf. Would love to learn because it seems counter-intuitive.
Your assertion is that shredded and maimed hulls are a better filter mechanism than intact ones. Every brewing-related literature written contradicts this.

Here it is put succinctly:
"This allows the grain to form a "bed" where the spent hulls support each other and form a filtration structure"

Shredded hulls will compact and just like water filter media, once it is totally compacted it loses filtration effectiveness.

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:16 PM   #29
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Come watch me re-circ my mash at over a gallon per minute. Explain that.


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Old 05-24-2011, 05:24 PM   #30
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It seems like the consensus from the previous threads I've read on this topic was opposite of what you guys are saying.

for example: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/malt...-rocks-144752/

Search down the page for "filter".

 
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