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Old 05-17-2011, 08:48 PM   #1
Bonde
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Default IPA gone extremely bitter after 2 months

Well, just kegged for the first time. A wonderful thing to get into, but now a lot of new questions has emerged as my first keg has now gone bad.

I see mostly 3 options:

1. It could be my Co2 (which is not food grade, but as far as I’m told It doesn’t matter, or at least not here in DK)
2. Could it be my aroma hops just fading enough to let the not so bitter 69IBU shine through?
3. Could the keg Start getting oxidated when the Co2 is not always on. I mean loss of pressure etc.

What do you think? It’s my first keg. I actually had kind of this taste (not entirely the same) when I started brewing in my first batches, which I think was because of hot side oxidation and too hot sparge. This shouldn’t be the case this time.

The IPA Tasted great the first month in the keg, but (almost along with clearing) it deteriorated very fast the past week or so.

Taste is best described as:
Very harsh bitternes on the back/sides of the tongue. The taste is not in the beginning when sipping, but in the taste that lingers afterwards.

Recepie(5 gallon):
Pale 2500g
Munich 1450g
Pilsner 1270g
Cara pils 500
Cara munich 360
Cara Crystal 140
Vienna 220

As you can see, it was kind of a empty the closet IPA

Hops

120 min. Magnum 25g AA14.5
60 min. Challenger 10g AA7.6
10 min. Amarillo 20, cascade 5, centennial 5
5 min Amarillo 20, cascade 5, centennial 5
1 min Amarillo 20, cascade 5, centennial 5
Dry 40 Amarillo, cascade 6, Centennial 6

Kegged after one month in primary, dry hopped in primary for 14 days.

I really, really hope someone can help me, so I will not panic(hopefully), especially about co2 as I have 4 beers in primary soon to be kegged… and not ruined if that’s the case.

Note: I dumped the last 2 liters, would never get to drink it when not enjoying it. It had no signs of any infection on top, which would also have lead to sourness too right?


Water:
Calcium 37mg
Sulfat 11mg
Magnesium 5.4mg
Sodium 17mg
Chloride 19mg
HydrogenCarbonat(bicarbonat) hydrogen na 148
Ph 7.8

Added 10ml of calcium chloride


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Old 05-31-2011, 11:41 AM   #2
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Another beer gone bad….

Is it really possible that the co2 can do this.
It’s almost the same story, on tap from the 9th of may(brewed 24/4), tasted great the first 2 weeks. But then had this cheesy like off taste and bitterness today when tasting.

I’m really starting to be pulling my hair out, this is so demoralizing.
Hear of tons of people just using regular industrial co2 for carbonation without any problems.

My prior IPAs batches bottled, did not seem to lose flavor so fast, could at least stay fresh for 3 months.


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Old 05-31-2011, 12:17 PM   #3
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Assuming that it's not a sanitation issue (which would be unusual, infections don't usually taste bitter), you can check if the source of your problem truly is the CO2 by priming some of your kegs with sugar. Taste some after 2-3 weeks, and then let the beer sit for another month or two. If the taste isn't there at that point, it's probably your source of CO2.

Most of us use CO2 from fire extinguisher places, welding shops and other industrial sources, and don't run into problems.

(Edit: The pressure generated from the natural carbonation should be more than enough to serve several pints without requiring a CO2 hookup for dispensing).
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:39 PM   #4
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That would be an option yes... But a long time to wait brewing/kegging for 2-3 months before knowing/ruling if one of the factors.

Can yeast cause such serious off tastes?

Could it just be hops fading too fast, maybe because of the use of old hops, so only the alpha acids left?

Used max. Ĺ year old hops for this last one.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:47 PM   #5
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I've had the hops aroma/flavor start to fade at 4-5 weeks in the bottle. Then,it seems,only a bright tasting bitterness left on the back. I wonder if o2 absorbing caps would help this? Or in your case,good keg seals,or sealing on the hose connections?
I also wonder about using industrial grade gasses? How pure are they?
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:09 PM   #6
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4-5 weeks in the bottle, how long in primary/secondary and did you dry hop? Both of mine were dry hopped.

And when talking about keg seals etc., As long as the co2 pressure is higher than the atmospheric pressure nothing should be leaking into the kegs right?

If hose connections were to blame, the first glass should have tasted bad too or? Because of the oxidation I assume you have in mind here.

Just checked my receipts from the store I bought the hops, they were purchased December 12 and has an expiry date in 2012. Therefore 2010 harvest I presume. This would, in my opinion, not categorize as old hops.

Regarding the food vs. non-food grade I rang up the supplier AGA and Airliquide here in Denmark, and they could tell me that it was absolutely the same gas, only a question of how they are filled/refilled. And on the other hand what beer spoiling “common” bacteria can survive in a extreme high pressure an minus 24c environment?. Or am I missing a microbiological thing here.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:17 PM   #7
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For the interested the second one is:
A mix of Pale, munic, cara pils and cara Hell (crystal) 5kg
Simcoe 30g @ 90min
Cascade 20g+williamette 25g+Simcoe 5g @10
Cascade 5g+williamette 25g+Simcoe 5g @5
Cascade 5g+williamette 25g+Simcoe 5g @1
Cascade 30g+williamette 20g+Simcoe 5g @Flameout
Cascade 25+Wiliamette 15g @ dry

3 weeks in primary
1 week with dry hops
3 weeks after kegging the taste dramatically decreased and started developing off tastes(or maybe just more detectable)

Alc 6% IBU 50

FG 1011 – 3 step mash 54/62/67
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonde View Post
4-5 weeks in the bottle, how long in primary/secondary and did you dry hop? Both of mine were dry hopped.

And when talking about keg seals etc., As long as the co2 pressure is higher than the atmospheric pressure nothing should be leaking into the kegs right?

If hose connections were to blame, the first glass should have tasted bad too or? Because of the oxidation I assume you have in mind here.

Just checked my receipts from the store I bought the hops, they were purchased December 12 and has an expiry date in 2012. Therefore 2010 harvest I presume. This would, in my opinion, not categorize as old hops.

Regarding the food vs. non-food grade I rang up the supplier AGA and Airliquide here in Denmark, and they could tell me that it was absolutely the same gas, only a question of how they are filled/refilled. And on the other hand what beer spoiling ďcommonĒ bacteria can survive in a extreme high pressure an minus 24c environment?. Or am I missing a microbiological thing here.
It spent 4 weeks in primary,with a tight seal I always have trouble breaking. The 4th week was a dry hop. Didn't use o2 caps,just reg ones/plastic seal inside. I was wondering out loud about all those things. Thought maybe a leak would let air in slowly over a period of time? Just covering the bases to help you think it through. There are microbes that live in high pressure ,even foul nasty ones. They found a new one a while back in Yellowstone around the bubbling mud pits near geysers. So not all nasties are "common". Just tried to help. Now I know better.
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonde View Post
I see mostly 3 options:

1. It could be my Co2 (which is not food grade, but as far as I’m told It doesn’t matter, or at least not here in DK)
2. Could it be my aroma hops just fading enough to let the not so bitter 69IBU shine through?
3. Could the keg Start getting oxidated when the Co2 is not always on. I mean loss of pressure etc.


Definitely #2.
No problem, just have to drink your IPAs young if you want that wonderful hoppy aroma/flavor.

When mine get too old, they do the same thing.

Check most commercial IPAs - they have best-by dates on them. Pliny the Elder has it wrapped around the label a dozen times - drink it young!
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Old 05-31-2011, 01:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang Glider View Post
Definitely #2.
No problem, just have to drink your IPAs young if you want that wonderful hoppy aroma/flavor.

When mine get too old, they do the same thing.

Check most commercial IPAs - they have best-by dates on them. Pliny the Elder has it wrapped around the label a dozen times - drink it young!
As young as max 3 weeks? that really surprises me. Maybe my taste just became a lot better during the last year of intense brewing (32 batches), but I donít recall my first IPAs going off within the first 3 months. Of course thatís actually a possibillyti and normal development, becoming very picky towards beer drinking.

Would a hop aroma tea bring back some of the taste? Cause as it is now, Iím close to dumping 5gallons 


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