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Old 04-26-2011, 09:21 PM   #1
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Default Calculating stepping up a starter

I've always used the Mr. Malty yeast calculator before I brew to make the correct sized starter. I've only brewed ales and would like to try a lager. I plugged in the calculator:

OG: 1.056
Volume: 11 gals
Yeast Prod. date: 04/12/2011
Using a stirplate

It's telling me I need 4 packs in 4.02 liters of starter. I have a 2 liter flask. How do I go about this or do I need a bigger starter container?
Can I make a smaller starter, decant, and step it up? Like a 2 liter starter, cold crash, decant, and another 2 liters of fresh wort?
How do I know how much yeast is made when stepping up?


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Old 04-26-2011, 09:52 PM   #2
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According to my calculations, you need about 860 billion cells. If you made a 2 L starter then stepped to 3.5 L it would only get you to 720 billion cells. Therefore, going from 2 to 2 would definitely not work. The only way I can see that working is to use 2 vials/packs then doing 2 and 2. Otherwise, you need to prepare a smaller batch.


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Old 04-26-2011, 10:14 PM   #3
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In mr malty, just play with OG until it tells you what starter size fits your system. Use the amount of yeasted needed for the first calculation and input that into the viability field. Then repeat by changed the volume/OG etc.

Basically you make a starter to whatever size you want and then use that starter (and how many yeast cells you'll make) as the starting volume for the next one.
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:26 PM   #4
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If you make a 1L starter with 1 vial you'll get about 200 billion cells. Decant this and pitch it into a 2L starter. This will give you about 400 billion cells. I highly recommend using fermcap or what AHS sells in the boil to cut down on overflow.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:17 AM   #5
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I thought that a 1L starter gets you 152 billion cells. A 2L starter will get you 200 billion cells. At least this is what I have read.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:51 AM   #6
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Has anybody tried this?
http://seanterrill.com/2010/03/08/tw...-calculations/
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:21 PM   #7
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I basically followed the process outlined in the Yeast book, described by Billy Brew. Here's a link on how to do stepping with regular starters: http://billybrew.com/stepping-up-a-yeast-starter
Since I do not yet own the book, I can't say whether the table in the link is exactly doubled for stirplates, but that's what I'm currently doing and it seems to be working out pretty well.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:26 PM   #8
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If I put 2 vials in 2 liters I'd get 300 billion cells or on a stirplate, 600 billion cells. Where do I go from there to get 860 billion?
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrooze View Post
I basically followed the process outlined in the Yeast book, described by Billy Brew. Here's a link on how to do stepping with regular starters: http://billybrew.com/stepping-up-a-yeast-starter
Since I do not yet own the book, I can't say whether the table in the link is exactly doubled for stirplates, but that's what I'm currently doing and it seems to be working out pretty well.
They didn't make it too obvious in the book but a couple pages before the table they do say that their pitching rate experiments were done without any oxygen added, so this table is without added O2. If you're using a stir plate you can pretty much double your growth. My guess is that they did it this way to provide a baseline to work from since everyone's oxygenation methods are different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrooze View Post
If you make a 1L starter with 1 vial you'll get about 200 billion cells.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conehead View Post
I thought that a 1L starter gets you 152 billion cells. A 2L starter will get you 200 billion cells. At least this is what I have read.
You're both right

It depends on oxygen. Adjust the OG in the calculator until you get a 2 liter starter, then set it on stir plate and it will be cut down to 1 liter. O2 at start gives you 1.5.
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Old 04-27-2011, 04:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snail View Post
If I put 2 vials in 2 liters I'd get 300 billion cells or on a stirplate, 600 billion cells. Where do I go from there to get 860 billion?
Actually, on a stirplate you'll get 400 b cells by pitching 2 vials into 2L starter wort. From there you'll need to pitch it into 4L of starter wort. That'll get you 800 b cells and that's as far as the chart goes. It should get you pretty close.


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