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Old 04-26-2011, 01:17 AM   #1
Mapleroots
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Default 2011 Saison

Grain Bill
20 lb. Marris otter (Belgian)
2 lb. Rye malt
1 lb. Wheat
1 lb. Belgian Biscuit
Hop Schedule
1 oz. Saaz 60 min
1 oz. Mt. Hood 30 min
1 oz. Saaz 10 min.
1oz. Mt. Hood 10 min.
Star anise, and grains of paradise-
Primary- 2 weeks White labs Belgian Ale (WLP 550)
Secondary 1 lb. honey; 1 month
Planning on brewing this one at the end of this week and would love some feedback on the overall recipe.


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Old 04-26-2011, 01:19 AM   #2
robtotten
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Is that for 10 gallons?


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Old 04-26-2011, 01:25 AM   #3
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It looks like a great recipe, but it isn't really a saison without a saison yeast.

Also, if you do go with a saison yeast (I recommend either 3711 or WLP568) you won't need the grains of paradise.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:31 AM   #4
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I,m going to boil this brew down to 6 gal. and pitch the Belgian yeast I read this Yeast will work with the style. I'm going to ferment at warm temps: 85-90*f for 2 weeks primary, and around 75*f in secondary.
Yeah maybe i will drop the grains of paradise, I'm not sure of the peppery notes this yeast is going to leave?
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:01 AM   #5
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Switch out your base grain for pilsner. That MO is going to be a little too nutty/bready. Pilsner is great in that it lends an impression of sweetness while still being quite clean. For the same reason I would completely drop the biscuit malt.

I would kill both of the spices. I actually had a saison once with star anise, it was overwhelming and killed the subtleness and yeast profile of the saison.

And as stated before.... get a saison yeast. I can't stress that enough. The Wyeast 3711 is my personal favorite. While the Belgian Yeast will give you some of the flavors your looking for... you're not going to get exactly what you want.

The 550 is fruity and spicy. But the 3711 is fruity and spicy in a different way, it has hints of clove, lemon peel and orange peel.

In a beer that is all about showcasing yeast profile, it's best to have the right one. And to have a grain bill that's not going to mask the flavors too much. That's the same reason for not using those spices.
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Old 04-26-2011, 03:52 AM   #6
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My votes are with Homebrewtastic. OM swapped for Pilsner and get yourself some saison yeast.

The anise is a personal touch, so I can't say much, but be careful with it. It is potent.

If you are absolutely dead set on using the 550, keep the grains of paradise. It will help mimic a saison but I agree it won't be what you wanted.

This is going to give you about 1.106 OG assuming 70% efficiency.

It is my strong recommendation that you do not ferment the entire primary at 85-90. Start at 68-70 and let it ferment for atleast 4 days around that temp and then you can start boosting it up to 80+. The Saison yeast are designed to work well under the higher temps. the belgian ale yeast may not work under those conditions as well as the saison. (too fruity, sour apple, butterscotch, etc.).

I would also say, trade out more of your grain for simple sugars. You are going to want to get this somewhat dry, but also keep enough sweetness to hide the high alcohol. So, it will be a balancing act. I would say atleast 1.5lbs of simple sugars (1.5honey, or 1lb honey .5lb sucrose), but more likely 2lbs will work as it will assist in:
a) getting your brew down to a reasonable FG
b) help you get a better efficiency from your mash by lowering the amount of grain used.

These are just my suggestions. Overall the recipe looks really good. But I don't think the final result would have been a saison.
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Old 04-26-2011, 04:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapleroots
I,m going to boil this brew down to 6 gal.
Wow. If you get this as dry as a saison should be you are going to have one hell of a big beer. Why the long boil and why such a big grain bill? You can get a tasty 6%ABV saison without even going over 1.050. If this really is your plan, perhaps the high gravity, alcohol tolerant Belgian strain is the better choice.
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Old 04-26-2011, 06:06 AM   #8
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If this only gets down to 1.020 FG, that's still going to put you at right around 12%abv and fairly sweet. Not exactly a refreshing summer beer. This strikes me more as an underhopped barleywine with a Belgian yeast and some spices. If that's what you're going for, then brew on and enjoy it. If you're wanting this to be like any other saison you've had, I don't think this recipe will get you there.

I've also never heard of Belgian Maris Otter, and I'd be surprised if it exists. If you want anything saison-like, I'd stick with a pilsner malt, as suggested above. Maris Otter does make for a superb barleywine base, though (see point above).
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:44 PM   #9
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your right this is a British origin grain. The reason I'm doing such a big beer out of this style is that i'm experimenting with mashing 12lb. grain twice in my 10 gal. mashing tun. and boiling down in my 8 gal. brew kettle. All my beers for a while will be done with this method, and I will be changing the yeasts, grains and hops, for different styles. I'm thinking about dropping the Belgian biscuit and replacing with another lb. rye? As for the base, I've got 55 lb. Marris Otter, and this beer needs to get done. Planning on using 2 star anise at 10 min. boil, so as not to get to overpowering with this flavor. As for the ABV. I love my sarongs, and I've tried some saison's with this high % that didn't compromise there overall style and flavor for the bigger grain bill. I think the honey should dry it out to what I want out of this beer, And I'f I have to up the hops to balance it out, I'm willing to do that. I'm just looking for a beer that is tasty along the lines of a Saison. Maybe in between A Barleywine and Saison?
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapleroots View Post
your right this is a British origin grain. The reason I'm doing such a big beer out of this style is that i'm experimenting with mashing 12lb. grain twice in my 10 gal. mashing tun. and boiling down in my 8 gal. brew kettle. All my beers for a while will be done with this method, and I will be changing the yeasts, grains and hops, for different styles. I'm thinking about dropping the Belgian biscuit and replacing with another lb. rye? As for the base, I've got 55 lb. Marris Otter, and this beer needs to get done. Planning on using 2 star anise at 10 min. boil, so as not to get to overpowering with this flavor. As for the ABV. I love my sarongs, and I've tried some saison's with this high % that didn't compromise there overall style and flavor for the bigger grain bill. I think the honey should dry it out to what I want out of this beer, And I'f I have to up the hops to balance it out, I'm willing to do that. I'm just looking for a beer that is tasty along the lines of a Saison. Maybe in between A Barleywine and Saison?

You'd be surprised at how much that little bit of star anise will cover up your beer. Saisons don't need spices.


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