Oxalate levels in beer - Home Brew Forums
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Oxalate levels in beer
Cool Brewing Giveaway - Supporting Membership Drive & Discount

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-21-2011, 12:41 PM   #1
SpanishCastleAle
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Central Florida
Posts: 4,338
Liked 36 Times on 36 Posts



In an attempt to reduce the occurence of Calcium Oxalate kidney stones I've been instructed to reduce oxalates in my diet. My doctor gave me a sheet that said draft beer was bad but bottled beer was moderate. I found this Low Oxalate Diet paper and it says that 'dark or robust beer' is bad, 'draft beer' is moderate, and 'bottled beer' is good.

What assumptions are they making to say that draft beer and bottled beer are different regarding calcium oxalate?
Why are 'dark or robust' beers considered bad? Just because dark grains tend to be more acidic?
Anything I can do as a brewer to reduce Calcium Oxalate in my beer while not affecting quality?


__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 12:58 PM   #2
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Recipes 
 
Aug 2010
McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 8,799
Liked 1313 Times on 1005 Posts


I've seen those same statements and I think they are BS. Oxalate is produced (released) in the production of beer. Even if dark malts contain a higher proportion of it (which I doubt) it is easily removed by making sure that enough calcium to precipitate it is carried into the final beer. Good brewing practice demands that we do that as oxalate crystals suspended in the beer apparently promote gushing. That said, in over 20 years of doing this I have seen a calcium oxalate crystal in one of my beers exactly once.



 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 01:46 PM   #3
SpanishCastleAle
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Central Florida
Posts: 4,338
Liked 36 Times on 36 Posts


Thanks AJ, I was hoping you'd respond. So, counter-intuitively it would seem, reducing the Calcium in my brewing water would actually be the wrong way to go (purely from a 'Calcium Oxalate levels in the final beer' perspective)?

I can live with less spinach and collards in my diet, but not beer.

Interestingly, the sheet my doctor gave me said meats were 'bad' but that University of Pittsburgh Med Center paper says meat is good (sardines and liver are 'moderate' but I don't eat either). Obv I tend to believe what I want to be true.

Maybe it's one of those: 'Well, eggs have cholesterol so obviously eating eggs is unhealthy' things that goes counter-intuitive to what seems obvious (but isn't).
__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 04:27 PM   #4
ajdelange
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Recipes 
 
Aug 2010
McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 8,799
Liked 1313 Times on 1005 Posts


I'm no expert on this certainly but I do know more about it than I ever hoped to. Yes, from the oxalate carry over POV low calcium is the wrong thing to do. I put more calcium into my Boh. Pils than I normally would for this reason.

As for the meat the idea there is that meat contains nucleotides (but, of course, so do plant cells) and that this leads to higher urea and that the urea can serve as a stimulator for stone formation. Indeed your "oxalate" stone(s) are probably about 10% uric acid. And yes, I have seen conflicting advice WRT to what one is advised to eat.

I thought one paper put it nicely. It said stone formation is perhaps 30% explainable by the thermodynamics, 25 percent explainable by ionic strength effects (I would roll this in with the thermo but I didn't write the paper) and the rest by as yet not understood phenomena. I look at it this way. The more dilute the solutions involved the less the liklihood of precipitation from any of those effects. If it comes out darker than 3 SRM or so I figure I haven't had enough water intake and work on that basis.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 06:40 PM   #5
SpanishCastleAle
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Central Florida
Posts: 4,338
Liked 36 Times on 36 Posts


Based on my typ water intake (often next to none), I'm hoping just drinking more water will help. As of last night (well, two more tank flushes) I now have RO at my kitchen sink (separate faucet), I wonder if drinking that instead of regular tap will help?

Quote:
If it comes out darker than 3 SRM or so I figure I haven't had enough water intake and work on that basis.
I know another great beverage to get it under 3 SRM.
__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 07:47 PM   #6
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
mabrungard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2011
Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,986
Liked 535 Times on 421 Posts


Yes, its BS. Having a relatively high calcium content in your brewing water will help precipitate oxalates from your beer.


__________________
Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brun-...?ref=bookmarks

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
can anyone help me with my ph levels agezzi Brew Science 3 06-01-2010 10:05 PM
campden tablets and its effect on base water levels martinworswick Brew Science 5 01-08-2010 12:06 AM
Elevation change affecting carbonation levels in bottle conditioned beer? AZ_IPA Brew Science 15 05-27-2009 08:42 AM


Forum Jump