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Old 04-17-2011, 05:30 PM   #1
ders
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Dec 2010
San Diego, CA
Posts: 18


So I think I am ready to move from extract to AG and I am in the process of accumulating parts for a single tier electric setup. I was wondering if people would mind looking at the diagram I put together and let me know what I am missing or overlooking. There are a couple things to know about the diagram:

- Can I use the switches in between the PID and the SSRs to control when the PIDs are allowed to control the heating elements or should I just use them on the hot lines before the SSR?

- The BK PID is different because all I need is something to control the element manually and I thought I would save a few bucks...

- I am planning on using an inline GFCI breaker in my power cord.

- I was a little confused on fuse locations so I wanted to make sure those were in the right places.

- I didn't include the temp probes in this diagram so I know they are missing.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks and Cheers!



Newest diagram at post #37



Reason: update

 
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:11 PM   #2
Wberry
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Mar 2011
Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 68

Couple of notes:

Looks like you are wanting to use automotive blade style fuses ... I would lean towards glass barrels or better yet, small DIN mount breakers (if you have the cash - look at Altech). Look into using a force coil contactor for your mains and be sure to wire its coil through an e-stop. Yes you have a GFCI but the instant shutdown of a mushroom e-stop button is just a nice added feature. If you think you will expand later you can use WAGO DIN mount Cage Clamp terminal blocks that have terminal connectors and potential separators that will make wiring and changing wiring a breeze. Also make sure that you have great grounds - it is an often overlooked element in electrical control systems and can drastically improve (depending on the style of controller and thermocouples you plan to use) the responsiveness of a PID system. Also don't forget to ground your chassis, control box and possibly your kettles if they are not bolted to your stand. If you are looking for parts my suggestions are as follows (assuming an reasonably healthy budget) ... You could also use a force coil relay on each power feed to the Elements and drop an SSR to save some money - one leg with always be hot when the relay is engaged but might let you spend some cash elsewhere.

E-Stop Contactor - Sprecher & Schuh Force Coil Control Rated
E-Stop Button - IDEC Mushroom Head
Monitor Lights and Switches - Sprecher & Schuh D7 LED series
Fuses Holders and Terminal Blocks - WAGO DIN Cage Clamp 240 series
Enclosure - Hoffman Nema 4 Rated
Breakers - Altech DIN Mount Breakers
Grounding Braid and Lugs - McMaster Carr

Just My 2 Cents


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Old 04-17-2011, 06:17 PM   #3
djsethall
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Nov 2010
Olympia, WA
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Have you thought of throwing in a couple dpdt relays to be able to switch from high to low for your heating elements? You could use a high selection for cleaning. I would use the camco ultra low watt density for the rims element as it will be in direct contact with wort. Other than those rwo questions, it looks great to me.

 
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Old 04-17-2011, 06:26 PM   #4
milldoggy
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Mar 2008
Pottstown, Pa
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I would suggest a dpdt before the ssr, ssr's can leak current. Also, if you bump up to 50 amp, you could run the rims and one of the 240 elements. You could wire the 240 elements on a 3 way and leave the rims on a 2 way switch. You can use the auber pid in manual or auto mode, might look cleaner with all the same pids.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:27 PM   #5
ders
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Dec 2010
San Diego, CA
Posts: 18

Thanks everyone. I do plan on running my HLT and RIMS elements at the same time. They should draw about 25 amps together so that should be ok right? Wberry, thanks for the suggestions. It will take me a bit of time to digest that and do some more research but I will post back when I refine the diagram a bit more.

 
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:15 PM   #6
milldoggy
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Mar 2008
Pottstown, Pa
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A 240 v 5500 watt element is about 23 amps, a 120 volt 1500 is like 12, you need a 50 amp service.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:19 PM   #7
ders
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Dec 2010
San Diego, CA
Posts: 18

right but I wont be running my BK element with any other element. The HLT element is a 240V 3000 watt element.

 
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:32 PM   #8
milldoggy
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Mar 2008
Pottstown, Pa
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missed that
3000/240 = 12.5
1500/120 = 12.5
pumps = 1.4
pumps = 1.4
total = 28
30 *.8 = 24 amps
So you are 1 amp over the limit even without pumps.

You need a 40 or 50 amp service
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:36 PM   #9
Wberry
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Mar 2011
Huntington Beach, Ca
Posts: 68

@ders

Sorry if I overwhelmed you. Coming from the entertainment/industrial automation world, I tend to reach for very robust and flexible solutions. Yes it is likely overkill; but, you will end up with components that will last a lifetime and are pretty easy to troubleshoot. If you want I can post links to most of those components and you should be able to find many on e-bay for a fraction of retail.

Best of luck and I will try to monitor the thread.
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Drinking: American Amber, Kolsch-Style, American Blonde
Bottled: Falconers Flight IPA, Falconers Flight IPA w/Raspberries, AG BIAB Kolsch-Style
Primary: AG Kolsch-Style #2
On Deck: Bee Cave Haus Pale on Peaches

 
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:47 PM   #10
milldoggy
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Mar 2008
Pottstown, Pa
Posts: 2,360
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Have you looked at Kals - The Electric Brewery site. There is a boatload of info there.

www.theelectricbrewery.com


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