Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout clone (2011 HBT Competition Category 21 winner)

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mikeho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
135
Reaction score
15
Location
Boston
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Safale US-05
Yeast Starter
no
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
no
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.086
Final Gravity
1.024
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
52
Color
59
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
25 days @ 64 deg
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
none
Tasting Notes
recipe from BYO with slight changes
g6DHx.jpg


Here's the original recipe.

9 lb 2-row
1 lb DME
22 oz. flaked oats
1.0 lb. crisp chocolate malt (412 °L)
12 oz. Briess roast barley malt (300 °L)
9 oz. debittered, black malt (550 °L)
7 oz. crystal malt (120 °L)

2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Sumatran coffee
2.0 oz. (57 g) ground Sumatran coffee
2.5 oz. (71 g) chocolate chips
2 oz. (57 g) unsweetened chocolate baking nibs

1 oz Nugget pellet hops (60 min.)
1 oz Willamette pellet hops (30 min.)
1 oz Willamette pellet hops (0 min.)
1⁄2 tsp. Irish moss (last 15 minutes)

4 oz (113 g) of corn sugar for priming

Mash at 148 for 60 min at 1.25 qt/lb
Add 2 oz coffee and chocolate at flameout, in bag

At bottling, dissolve 4 oz priming sugar in 2 oz coffee steeped in 1 qt of water in French press

I changed the recipe from the original BYO all-grain version because I brew in a bag, and I use my 5 gallon kettle as a mash tun, so I can only fit about 13 lbs of grain, hence the extra lb of DME.
 
This looks AWESOME! I would, however, like to tweak it a little to lower the ABV a bit so I can enjoy more of them before hitting the floor! Any ideas on how I could do this with out killing the spirit of the beer/clone?

Thanks!

John
 
I have never tried to lower an ABV, more typically I would try to increase it. You could always just drink more slowly. I think if you were to try to lower the ABV by decreasing the malt bill, you would want to adjust the hops accordingly, otherwise the balance will be off. The recipe has a BU/GU of 0.6, so if you decreased the malt bill by 20% to get an OG of 1.068, you would want to decrease the hops also by 20%. Alternatively you could make a 6 gal batch using the same ingredients. I have no idea if this will work, I have never tried it, but let me know if you do.
 
I just split a batch and racked 2.5 gallons to secondary on 1 oz of medium toast oak chips soaked in 4 oz of bourbon. Never tried this before, but hopefully it will approximate Kentucky Breakfast Stout.
 
The first time I brewed this recipe, I added the coffee, and both kinds of chocolate (bittersweet chips and unsweetened nibs) at the end of boil, and left them in when I transferred to primary, then had a tough time bottling because the bottling wand kept getting clogged with coffee grounds and chocolate. The next time, I put the chocolate and coffee in a hop bag at the end of the boil, then left it in the kettle when I racked to primary after chilling (took me an hour using the sink water bath method). Not sure how this affected the flavor, but that's the version that you see above. I now have a chiller, so the time from flameout to pitching temp is much shorter, and I might leave the chocolate and coffee in the primary.
 
Don't really know. I make mostly IPAs, so I mash low, so probably out of habit. I figured the oats would help with mouthfeel. Probably would be more accurate to mash at 155.
 
As the person who drank the beer in that picture, I can affirm that this is one damn tastey beer. Had it side by side with the FBS and wouldn't change a thing. Thanks Mike!
 
Thanks for the comment, and be sure to thank the photographer as well, I'm sure this thread would not have any comments if it weren't for the picture.
 
Yes, in the first post there is a link to the original recipe, in BYO Jan/Feb 2009, but basically, just replace the first two ingredients (2-row and DME) with:
6.6 lbs. (3.0 kg) Briess light, unhopped, malt extract
1.7 lbs. (0.77 kg) light dry extract
 
Don't know for sure, the beer was bottled 1/24/11, so probably at least 1 month.
 
couple of questions for clarity... looks really good...

6.6lbs of briess light... is that dry or liquid? I am assuming liquid as the next line says dry ?

1.7lbs of light dry extract? any idea as to what type?
 
I think the recipe calls for both liquid and dry extract because often liquid malt extract (LME) is sold in 3.3 lb cans. Therefore you would need to supplement with dry malt extract (DME) if you don't want to waste a half can of LME. Many online stores can sell you the exact amount of LME that your recipe calls for, so you could convert the DME to LME, like so:
1 lb of grain = .75 lb LME = .6 lb DME

you need 1.7 lbs of DME,

(.75/.6)*1.7 = 2.125 lbs LME

so 6.6 + 2.125 = about 8.725 lbs LME

Any kind of light extract should be equivalent.
 
Gonna make this my winter warmer this year and have 3 questions....

1.) Are the Cacao nibs raw or are they a processed form for baking? Where did you get yours? I can only find them at whole foods raw...

2.) Any specific brand of Sumatran coffee you'd recommend? I'm thinking about just using Starbucks.

3.) How much in the way of conditioning did you need for this being that it is around 8%?
 
I used cocoa nibs from morebeer. I don't know exactly how they are made, maybe wikipedia would have some info. As far as coffee, I would just use something you like. I have heard podcasts about brewers (maybe the guy from Terrapin?) taking a lot of time to determine just the right coffee to add, but I'm sure if you like the coffee, it will be good in the beer. I think I gave it 4 weeks in primary, then 3 weeks in the bottle, but longer would be better, if you can wait. I think I have 2.5 gallons than I racked onto bourbon soaked oak chips, that has been waiting for me since April.
 
Thanks for the info! Will be brewing this soon, I think I may have found nibs at Whole Foods from a chocolate company named Theo.

Excited to brew this, thanks again!
 
I'm def giving this a try, but I will need to convert it to partial mash first... I better start acquiring all the ingrediants on this long list!
 
Would it change the out come dramatically if I simply throw the last two ounces of coffee in with the priming sugar boil? I don't have a french press, or know what one is for that matter.. Or should I just brew it in a normal coffee pot and add with boiled sugar? Thanks in advance!
:confused:
 
Would it change the out come dramatically if I simply throw the last two ounces of coffee in with the priming sugar boil? I don't have a french press, or know what one is for that matter.. Or should I just brew it in a normal coffee pot and add with boiled sugar? Thanks in advance!
:confused:

My ingredients will be here in two more days, I am making this with all organic from seven bridges. Can't wait to brew it up, especially since Founders doesn't distribute here in NE, and a buddy from K.C. keeps telling me how good the original is.
 
Coffee gets added twice, 2 oz at flameout and 2 oz around bottling. However, I re-read the original recipe from BYO and they state to add the second 2 oz in the secondary. I don't secondary, so I added at bottling. I think you want to avoid boiling the coffee, but you could add the coffee to the priming sugar/water, or make the coffee, and dissolve the priming sugar in that.
 
Am I reading this right, that you are adding a liter of coffee to the secondary or at bottling made with 2oz of grounds?
 
Yeah, I guess I did that. The original recipe did not say to add a liter of water, instead it says to add the 2 oz of coffee (dry) in the secondary. You could take that liter out of your original water measurement, or boil off a bit more, since you know you'll be adding back a little water, or you could add 2 oz of coffee to the secondary. There are probably lots of ways to add coffee, try one and see how it goes, then post back.
 
Here are some sources that I am drawing my info from http://***********/stories/issue/ar.../1911-founders-brewings-breakfast-stout-clone
also this page suggest not ever adding chocolate and coffee to the boil. http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/formulating-and-brewing-winning-chocolate-porter
The original recipe calls for 2oz of ground coffee, 2.5 oz bittersweet bakers chocolate, and 1.5 oz unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at flame out.
Because of the info from the second source. I plan on adding the 4 oz of coffee the recipe calls for to 2ndry by cold steeping it. Is this a terrible idea, will it be to much coffee with too little time to mellow out? I also plan on changing the ingredients of the bittersweet bakers chocolate, and unsweetened chocolate baking nibs to just unsweetened cocoa powder, because that is what I already have, also adding this to 2ndry instead of flameout.
Can anyone help with the amount of cocoa powder , which will be put in 2ndry, I should use to replace the 2.5 oz of bittersweet bakers chocolate and the 1.5 oz of unsweetened chocolate baking nibs to get a nice strong chocolate taste that FBS has?

Sent from my iPad2 using HB Talk
 
Cold steeping coffee will extract different flavors than brewing coffee in 200F water. Adding at flameout could mean waiting a few minutes after you start your chiller, so you are no longer at 212F. For reference, another coffee oatmeal stout uses about 2.5 ounces in secondary
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/ca...-n-bake-coffee-oatmeal-imperial-stout-218372/
so I think 4 ounces would be fine.

Cocoa powder is more processed than cocoa nibs, but less processed than Baker's chocolate. I would think you could go with 4 oz of cocoa, and if it comes out too strong or too weak, adjust accordingly for your next batch. Cocoa may even work out better, since it is lower in fat content (cocoa butter) which may affect head retention.
 
For the chocolate and coffee in the bag at flame out, do I remove the bag before racking to primary? Or should I leave it in for fermentation? I'm getting ready to start my mash soon, help is greatly appreciated!
 
I removed the bag before racking to primary. I don't know if there's much flavor left in the coffee at that point, but not sure about the cocoa nibs. Anyway, that's how I did it.
 
Thanks for the recipe btw! Mine came out just a bit strong on the coffee, but I don't have a french press and I think that's why. I intended to steep the 2nd addition and before I knew it, it was boiling. It still tastes absolutely fantastic, but the side by side comparison left me wanting to buy a french press and brew again to see just how close I can get it.

Tasty recipe here!
 
So you added grounds at flameout and actually made coffee for the keg?

I see many people using Bakers Chocolate of Chocolate Chips, but according to this:

Do not use milk, semi-sweet or baker's chocolate. These chocolates contain cocoa butter and other lipids that can harm the beer's head and lead to staling as the fats go rancid with age and oxygen exposure. Even distribution of the cacao solids in wort or beer requires melting the chocolate and stirring. There is no good way to do this without releasing the fats.

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/formulating-and-brewing-winning-chocolate-porter

It seems like cocoa powder is the easier and more effective way to give a beer chocolate flavor. Any thoughts? Thanks for posting.

I use 6-8 oz. cacao nibs in 5 gallons, or 1-2 oz. cocoa powder in 5 gallons.
 
I have made this beer three times now, and have not seen an effect of fats on head retention. However, I'm sure the info on the maltose falcons site is good. I have also aged this beer for 10 months, and have not detected any off flavors due to the fats going rancid. Maybe the amounts are too small to be detected, or I just don't have a very sensitive palate. I may go with cocoa powder next time just to see if it makes any difference.
 
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