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Old 02-28-2007, 01:22 PM   #21
Lil' Sparky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewman !
1) I don't understand how batch sparging can be faster AND get good efficiency.
This has to do with how the sugars are extracted from the grains. In a fly sparge, the water and grain remain close in sugar concentration, which is why you have to sparge very slowly. In a batch sparge, once you drain the initial runoff (which you know already has a high sugar concentration) you add back water with no sugar. This allows the remaining sugars to easily "flow" into the water, quickly reaching equilibrium.

Hope that helps.



 
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Old 02-28-2007, 01:23 PM   #22
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FWIW, I've done 4 AG brews, and I never bother with making the mash runnings equal. I put what I need in for the first run, and what I need to sparge with to get to my 7 gallons. I get fine efficiencies (I don't check, but I'm always over my assumed 70% efficeiency level).


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Old 02-28-2007, 01:45 PM   #23
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I fly sparge for a few reasons. In general I have been getting really excellent efficiencies (but remember efficiency is a function of grain crush and some other factors as well which may or may not vary depending on the method and setup). It works nicely for me because I have a 5 gallon cooler and don't have room for batch sparging. In hindsight a 10 gallon would have been probably a better investment, but most of my brews are in the 45 to 60 range anyways so no big deal. The process goes like this for me. I heat my strike water in a 5.5 gallon pot and when it is ready I mash in. Then I set the timer for 60 and refill the pot with sparge water. By the time I am mashed, my sparge water is ready. I vorlauf, and then start to drain. Then all I do is wait until the sparge water is just above the level of the grain and then I just ladle the water onto the grains. Plain and simple. No arms, etc. The process for collecting 7 gallons of wort takes me roughly 35-40 minutes.
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Old 02-28-2007, 02:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebisch01
I fly sparge for a few reasons. In general I have been getting really excellent efficiencies (but remember efficiency is a function of grain crush and some other factors as well which may or may not vary depending on the method and setup). It works nicely for me because I have a 5 gallon cooler and don't have room for batch sparging. In hindsight a 10 gallon would have been probably a better investment, but most of my brews are in the 45 to 60 range anyways so no big deal. The process goes like this for me. I heat my strike water in a 5.5 gallon pot and when it is ready I mash in. Then I set the timer for 60 and refill the pot with sparge water. By the time I am mashed, my sparge water is ready. I vorlauf, and then start to drain. Then all I do is wait until the sparge water is just above the level of the grain and then I just ladle the water onto the grains. Plain and simple. No arms, etc. The process for collecting 7 gallons of wort takes me roughly 35-40 minutes.

I like that. It's simple
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:12 PM   #25
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i've done both, but prefer the fly sparge. i've got two coolers and two ball vavles and a ghetto rigged copper sparge arm. it's very easy to regulate the in and out flow. sparge takes an hour, i hit my 7.5 gallons and begin the boil about half way through the sparge.

i get better effeciency from the fly, but trade that for an hour or so more of brewing time.

i batch sparge when i don't feel like waiting around for the long sparge, or when we're making a low gravity beer.

the big beers i fly sparge to get every last bit out.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:33 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jezter6
FWIW, I've done 4 AG brews, and I never bother with making the mash runnings equal. I put what I need in for the first run, and what I need to sparge with to get to my 7 gallons. I get fine efficiencies (I don't check, but I'm always over my assumed 70% efficeiency level).
I don't want to knock you jester, but if you don't check, how do you know? And if you did check, you might find that equal runoffs might get you a little better effeciency...

 
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orfy
I like that. It's simple

Thanks. It has been working great for me, so I have no reason to change. Actually I am not convinced I'd want to do it another way. I am getting the process really streamlined now and don't want to mess with it.
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Old 02-28-2007, 03:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Sparky
If you want equal runoffs, then you would add 1.25 before your first runoff.

FYI - A lot of people use this as a mash out step to bring the entire wort up to 168 deg. Usually that means the water added is close to boiling. There are equations to figure that part out, but I don't have it off-hand. I use BeerSmith now which does that for me.

Again, some of the confusion from the different answers is because not everyone does it with equal runoffs. What I've read suggests that will result in the best efficiency.
Okay so normally I use about 11s pound of grain. I mash with 3.25 gallons of water. So my grain will absorb roughly 4 quarts so I'll get aobut 2.25 gallons of the first runoff. So now 7 - 2.25 = 4.75 minus some grain absortion. So I run off the first 2.25 then add let's say 5 gallons stir let sit stir again and runoff the rest? Does that sound right? What temp should my sparge water be?


That's my original equation. I want my runoff to be equal so If I'm gon use 5 gallons I'd subtract my original runoff of about 2.25 from 5 that gets me the water I need to add for the first run off which is 2.75. I'd run that off the add the remaining 3.25 gallons to the second run-off.

So it's

3.25 gallons for mashing losing 1 gallon for absortion leaves me 2.25 runn off as I want to get 3.5 gallons the first time I'd add 2.75 gallons to the tun.
Run that dry then add the remaining 3.25 gallons runn that off and I'm set? Is that correct? I have a 15 gallon mash tun so just adding what my tun can hold is out of the question.

How's my reasoning here sorry to keep asking the same quesion 100 different ways I just want to get this right come brew day.
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #29
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I think you lost me (or I lost you). Here's the run-down.

11 lbs grain
3.25 gal strike (~ 1 gal absorbed = 2.25 gal residual)
1.25 gal (~200 deg) mashout (2.25 + 1.25 = 3.5)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
add 3.5 gal (you won't have any more water absorbed)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
7 gal in kettle

Sorry for the confusion. I hope that was more clear.

BTW, that's exactly the way I would do it for 11 lbs. I've got no dead space in my MTL. If you do, then you would also want to account for that. After going through it once or twice, you'll have it dialed in for your equip.

Cheers!

 
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Old 02-28-2007, 04:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
11 lbs grain
3.25 gal strike (~ 1 gal absorbed = 2.25 gal residual)
1.25 gal (~200 deg) mashout (2.25 + 1.25 = 3.5)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
add 3.5 gal (you won't have any more water absorbed)
stir, rest 5-10 min, vorlauf
drain 3.5 gal
7 gal in kettle
I don't see how that is much faster or easier than fly sparging. You've got 2 extra stirs, 20 minutes of resting and an extra vorlauf that fly sparging doesn't have. That is at least 30 minutes.

A typical fly sparge for me is less than 45 minutes and I can read a book while fly sparging whereas batch sparging requires stirring and vorlaufing.

Tell me again why batch sparging is faster and easier ?

Now, if you can get good efficiency draining your bed that fast, why couldn't a fly sparger if they were draining at the same speed ?

Something doesn't make sense here.

Quote:
Then all I do is wait until the sparge water is just above the level of the grain and then I just ladle the water onto the grains. Plain and simple. No arms, etc. The process for collecting 7 gallons of wort takes me roughly 35-40 minutes.
That is exactly the way I do it. I lay a piece of perforated tin foil on the top of the mash bed so that I can be sloppy about pouring without disturbing the bed. Sparging in this manner is dead simple and requires almost no labor. I usually get my hops measured out and my yeast going while sparging.

My automated brew rig will have a water level sensor to turn the pump on and off. Muli tier systems could use a small float valve.


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