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Old 01-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #81
alien
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Orings to connect a Sanke keg to a 2" triclamp ferrule (for bottom drain or fermenters) are apparently dash #138, McMaster-Carr 9396K147 in silicone.

 
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:18 PM   #82
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Does anyone know the McMaster-Carr part number for the rubber airlock gaskets?

 
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:39 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchawk View Post
Does anyone know the McMaster-Carr part number for the rubber airlock gaskets?
no, but I think I got mine from Home Depot and IIRC it was a 3/8" grommet.
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Open log Fermenting and gas-can secondary?? I am planning my next brew right now!!

 
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #84
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As far as using silicone o-rings on posts, I use them exclusively, got them for a steal, and I use pure mineral oil for lubricants. Haven't had to replace them in a few months so far.
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Open log Fermenting and gas-can secondary?? I am planning my next brew right now!!

 
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:25 PM   #85
cwi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tre9er View Post
As far as using silicone o-rings on posts, I use them exclusively, got them for a steal, and I use pure mineral oil for lubricants. Haven't had to replace them in a few months so far.
Your anecdote of successfully using silicone O rings for QD posts doesn't change the fact that they are not the appropriate choice for this 'dynamic' application. As for using only 'pure mineral oil' based lubes, I didn't state they weren't appropriate, especially for silicone. I also hope you realize 'pure mineral oil' is no different (possibly worse for EPDM and Neoprene) than the lubes I previously mentioned- Petrol-Gel, Lubri-Film, petrolatum, etc. They are all petroleum based products, including your 'pure mineral oil'. It's what puts the mineral in 'mineral oil'.

The point I was making, and still am, are the complications that arise from 'having' to use petroleum/mineral oil based lubes in some places, if you also encounter seals commonly used with commercial draft systems. These range from EPDM on Sankey keg valves (and therefore also couplers), or the very commonly used Neoprene washers for "Beer Nut" tailpiece fittings used on virtually all shanks in the US, even when only using Corny kegs. If the complication arises unnecessarily due to using silicone rubber in an inappropriate location, some would prefer to simplify their lives, especially if it works better as well.

Even if silicone post O rings were free, for some people the additional hassle of multiple lubricants, not to mention the decreased utility/performance versus Buna-N, would make it worth the price of buying Buna-N O rings. Since Buna-N O rings are both cheaper and better performing in Corny post applications, choosing to use silicone in this case does not seem like a wise choice, unless you get them for a true 'steal'.

There seems to be some kind of fascination with silicone, elevating its status to some kind of super material. It has its benefits in some applications, just as other materials have benefits over it in other applications. If silicone were a superior choice for Corny posts, the extra minimal cost would not have been a factor for soda makers. Instead, they chose Buna.

 
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwi View Post
Your anecdote of successfully using silicone O rings for QD posts doesn't change the fact that they are not the appropriate choice for this 'dynamic' application. As for using only 'pure mineral oil' based lubes, I didn't state they weren't appropriate, especially for silicone. I also hope you realize 'pure mineral oil' is no different (possibly worse for EPDM and Neoprene) than the lubes I previously mentioned- Petrol-Gel, Lubri-Film, petrolatum, etc. They are all petroleum based products, including your 'pure mineral oil'. It's what puts the mineral in 'mineral oil'.

The point I was making, and still am, are the complications that arise from 'having' to use petroleum/mineral oil based lubes in some places, if you also encounter seals commonly used with commercial draft systems. These range from EPDM on Sankey keg valves (and therefore also couplers), or the very commonly used Neoprene washers for "Beer Nut" tailpiece fittings used on virtually all shanks in the US, even when only using Corny kegs. If the complication arises unnecessarily due to using silicone rubber in an inappropriate location, some would prefer to simplify their lives, especially if it works better as well.

Even if silicone post O rings were free, for some people the additional hassle of multiple lubricants, not to mention the decreased utility/performance versus Buna-N, would make it worth the price of buying Buna-N O rings. Since Buna-N O rings are both cheaper and better performing in Corny post applications, choosing to use silicone in this case does not seem like a wise choice, unless you get them for a true 'steal'.

There seems to be some kind of fascination with silicone, elevating its status to some kind of super material. It has its benefits in some applications, just as other materials have benefits over it in other applications. If silicone were a superior choice for Corny posts, the extra minimal cost would not have been a factor for soda makers. Instead, they chose Buna.
No problem, and not refuting your points, simply giving my (albeit anecdotal) experience with the silicone o-rings I took a flier on. Your info is good, though, and perhaps next time I'll order the buna-n for $2 less per 100.
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Open log Fermenting and gas-can secondary?? I am planning my next brew right now!!

 
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:35 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tre9er View Post
No problem, and not refuting your points, simply giving my (albeit anecdotal) experience with the silicone o-rings I took a flier on. Your info is good, though, and perhaps next time I'll order the buna-n for $2 less per 100.
No problem here either. I just have a habit pointing out when something is anecdotal vs. factual, especially if it appears to have been in response to factual info. Anecdotal evidence can be useful, especially when overly strict/complex/costly guidelines are proven, in practice, to be unnecessary. I don't see that being the case here, given that silicone is both more expensive (for most people), less durable, and introduces complexities.

I have not personally tried silicone post O rings, but even my Buna-N ones have taken a beating from R&Ring QDs. I wouldn't want even worse durability. The likely cause is that most posts, being industry cast offs, are in less than perfect shape, and result in less perfect insides on the QDs, especially in the 'guide portion'.

I have seen you post useful info in the past, so I didn't respond with my usual rebuttal for anecdotal evidence- my Uncle Billy's "lightnin' stopper stick" he carries around during storms. They are a simple device made from a sharpened 8' aluminum rod, and have served him well for many years.

The information I gathered and posted was not easy to find, and even more difficult to decipher. This was mainly due to the amount of mis/disinformation on the subject, especially lubricant and seal material compatibility. The use of silicone for being a poor choice for dynamic seals is (almost) universally agreed on.

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:54 PM   #88
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So for those of us with pin locks and are having some gas leak issues (line gets pushed slightly one way or another and gas leaks) we are recommending the number #112 o-rings? An Buna-N is the better product?

 
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:43 PM   #89
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Quote:
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So for those of us with pin locks and are having some gas leak issues (line gets pushed slightly one way or another and gas leaks) we are recommending the number #112 o-rings? An Buna-N is the better product?
If your Orings are beat up, new ones may help, along with lube.
If your lines are pushing things around, maybe try focusing equal effort there as well. Even with new Orings that work at first, you may not be aware of a leak until your newly filled tank is empty.

Are you fairly certain that's where the (only) leak is? As a leak detector, Star-san works OK, but diluted dish soap is usually a bit better. HVAC guys have some kind of super foaming stuff they use. Must have Carapils in it, or something.

I haven't looked at what size Oring is the latest rec for pin locks, so can't comment on that. For material, it's obvious what I would recommend.

Common CO2 line is fairly flexible, and shouldn't pose that much of a risk to pushing the QDs off axis enough to cause a leak. Those pin-lock QDs are tall, though. At least the ones I have are. One solution to the tall QD issue is to use the new SS pin-ball conversion posts for ~$15/pair, or cheaper sometimes. They will increase the value of your kegs by about the same amount, if you ever plan to sell them. Might be a decent solution if you have a mix of kegs.

 
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:02 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwi View Post
The use of silicone for being a poor choice for dynamic seals is (almost) universally agreed on.
I wouldn't really consider the post oring of a corny keg to be a dynamic seal. When orings are specified for dynamic seals they usually mean seals that spin 24/7 or slide repeatedly back and forth like in hydraulic cylinders. The occasional 1/2" that an oring slides in a keg post connector doesn't even register compared to most dynamic sealing. The vast majority of time a keg post oring is in a static situation. I won't worry at all about a split second of dynamic movement causing damage to a silicone keg post oring. But if one so chooses to spend time jamming a post connector on and off 24/7 for a few months then silicone is a bad idea.

 
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