Yeast starter w/o DME

Is there a good way to make a yeast starter without DME (dry malt extract)?

Some people use Goya Malta instead of DME/LME in their starter... I've not used it, since it's not at the grocery store I shop at...

A pound of DME lasts me long enough that it's not really much of an issue for me. I use about 2oz of DME in my starters (1qt total volume), which is enough to wake up the yeast slurry from the harvesting/washing...

I'm actually almost out of DME, so I'll be getting another pound when I go to the LHBS tomorrow. I might even break it up into smaller packages this time, to make it easier on me.

There really aren't a ton of options here. You could use LME or a wort from a mash. You don't want to use pure sugars because it makes the yeast less efficient at fermenting maltose.

To answer your question, no there is not a good way to make a starter without DME/LME/Leftover wort. You can use sugar (plain or table), but your fermentation may turn out a little different than expected.

Do you not have any DME around, or are you just curious?

No I don't have any DME without stealing it from the recipe.
**This is something I will keep on hand from now on!

I have some BB Porter Wort that is still in the primary from another batch...how would that work?

Thanks for your input!

I keep forgetting to order another pound of DME every time, so I've been doing a little mini mash for my starters.

Golddiggie, 2 oz. of DME to how much water? This is the least amount of DME I have seen yet. A micro-starter?

BeerBrods22 said:

No I don't have any DME without stealing it from the recipe.
**This is something I will keep on hand from now on!

I have some BB Porter Wort that is still in the primary from another batch...how would that work?

Thanks for your input!

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Steel it from the recipe. The health and cell count of the yeast are the most important component in your beer IMHO.

sjbeerman said:

Steel it from the recipe. The health and cell count of the yeast are the most important component in your beer IMHO.

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because i didn't pay attention when i bought my kit i didn't realize that the yeast i got (Wyeast American Ale II Propagator) requires a starter. I knew it was a good idea to make one but didn't realize it was actually required till now. To avoid a fairly long trip to the HBS for DME/LME, or having to put off my first batch for a week waiting for it to be shipped. It would be ok to take it out of the recipe? If so how much? Recipe kit comes with 2 lb Light DME and 6 lb. Briess Gold Liquid extract. Says i need to make a 1-2 liter starter, not sure how much of the extract i'll need for that and how much i can take without making a noticable difference in the beer. Don't know how i managed to not realize this till now especially since i'm not even at home, i'm sitting at work and got bored and figured i'd check the directions for the yeast for no real reason. (i can figure out how much extract i need for the starter just not sure if i can get away with less since it's coming out of the recipe.)
or can i pitch it and be ok but with a (possibly really) long lag time?
Thanks in advance.


(knew i should've got that yeast starter kit when i ordered everything else.)

Just steal about 3.5 - 4 oz. from your recipe to make a 1L starter. Better to have enough yeast and slightly less gravity than to have a stuck fermentation, especially since you only have a propagater.

ultravista said:

Golddiggie, 2 oz. of DME to how much water? This is the least amount of DME I have seen yet. A micro-starter?

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I usually make ~1qt of starter liquid... All depends on how much yeast I'm putting in... If I have enough yeast for the brew already, then I'm just looking to wake them up and give them an appetizer to make sure they're ready... I've also used 3oz and 3.5oz (with ~1qt of water added) of DME in a starter with pretty similar results. As long as my starter vessel has enough head room, I figure I'm good. I don't want to over-fill it after all. I do swirl it several times a day, to make sure it's going well. Most of the time, it's done in under 24 hours. Last starter I made with about 3.5oz of DME, and a quart of water (per Wyeast's site) it looked like it didn't do all that much. At least not compared with my other starters. I do tend to use yeast nutrient in the starters, to ensure healthy yeast. Still, less than 12 hours after pitching, we had krausen going and good activity.

Since I've yet to have a poor result making my starters, I'm more inclined to continue with the method. Of course, I plan on making a larger starter, to ensure I have enough yeast, when I make my barleywine. I have about 2-3oz of yeast already waiting in the fridge for the starter...

I'm giving serious thought to collecting extra wort from some future brews and freezing it to use for starters. I figure if I put about 1.75qt into my 2qt jars, and freeze them it will be safe (won't crack the jars)... That will give me enough wort for two good size starters. Of course, it will depend on the SG of the wort. Since I picked up another pound of DME recently (and have yet to open it) I won't NEED to do that for a while. :rockin:

Braufguss said:

Just steal about 3.5 - 4 oz. from your recipe to make a 1L starter. Better to have enough yeast and slightly less gravity than to have a stuck fermentation, especially since you only have a propagater.

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sweet, thanks. i was hoping there was a different solution (i knew it wouldn't happen but i was hoping it would be something i could easily obtain or if i could just pitch it but that was 100% wishful thinking) but oh well, 3-4 oz out of the 2 lb shouldn't make that huge of a difference anyway. also i could compensate for that by leaving out a bit of the top off water, no?

Actually if you think about it, if you pitch the whole starter, then you're not changing the overall ingredients much - you're smaller portion of the DME got fermented and will contribute to the alcohol. If you do what you said by compensating the topoff amount so you end up with the correct target final volume, you're not diluting your original recipe at all. I.e. your overall "effective OG" and FG should be about the same.

It's not always a good idea to pitch the whole thing, especially when you're talking about a delicate lager and a very large starter - e.g. such that there is a possibility of affecting final flavor profile. But in this case it's probably just fine.

made a 1 liter starter last night, only did a one liter because i don't have a scale accurate enough to measure how much DME i was putting in so i used a measuring cup and just kept checking the gravity of the mix till i got it close. Wasn't about to do that a second time. Looks like it's all going well though this morning with it's little mini yeast cake in there this morning. Definitely need to head over to harbor freight and pick up a scale, and need to make some money to place a couple more orders for a starter kit.
Thanks everyone on here for the advice and help, especially since this wasn't even my thread, haha.
I think i'm going to pitch the whole thing into the wort since it's a hoppy ipa. I completely see what you're saying as far as not doing in in a more delicate beer though. My next brew is going to be a saison, probably won't pitch the whole starter for that one.
thanks again everyone.

If it helps, I usually just use 1 cup of dme/quart of water. I've even got a scale, I just hate to pull it out for measuring one thing. I've tested it in the past and its always right around 1.04.

I just pitch my starters stright in at high krausen. I have never had any bad effects from it.

I mean your only making beer in your starter for all intent and purpose. It may be un hopped beer. But the volume of said starter shouldnt effect the over all flavor in a noticable manor.

Hex23 said:

Actually if you think about it, if you pitch the whole starter, then you're not changing the overall ingredients much - you're smaller portion of the DME got fermented and will contribute to the alcohol.

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That's exactly what I was thinking, but being a newbie I assumed it couldn't be that simple.

Or you could no chill brew and use a real wort starter.

Reddheadedstepchild said:

I mean your only making beer in your starter for all intent and purpose. It may be un hopped beer. But the volume of said starter shouldnt effect the over all flavor in a noticable manor.

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I'm not speaking of experience on this because I decant for all my lagers, but imagine you have a 4L starter (not totally uncommon). That's about 20 percent of the volume of a 5 gallon batch. When you made your starter you were doing it to increase cell count, not make good beer. So, you may have been at a higher than optimal temp for avoiding precursors, and possibly aerating the whole time. It's possible that a good, main fermentation might be able to clean all that up, but it would seem like it might take a long time.

As you mention, this hypothetical situation is not the case for smyth.

geezerpk said:

That's exactly what I was thinking, but being a newbie I assumed it couldn't be that simple.

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You're right. I suppose that technically it's not that simple. The difference in processes should result in different outcomes despite the input fermentables being the same. But it's probably one of those things in brewing that's close enough that most palettes wouldn't notice the difference. There seem to be lots of these things that some people swear make a difference, but objective experiments show them not to make any detectable difference. The starting yeast count probably would make a difference though.

Well pitched my starter on to the wort last night. Starter looked good, rather active. And i know, i know, it doesn't matter much if at all if the airlock does anything but that didn't stop me from smiling this morning when i saw it bubbling every 7-10 seconds or so.
actually one of the cats tricked me last night, thought i heard a bubble about a minute after closing the lid on the thing and i heard a bubble in water noise, and though "no way, it couldn't have started that quick" well it didn't, cat drank from the water bowl and it was the big water bottle refilling it. Hate those cats. Once i realized that's all it was i was actually relieved though.
Oh well, i'll let you guys know in a month or so how it comes out. Thanks for all the help.

If you are an AG brewer, you could also make too much wort and refrigerate it until you want to make a yeast starter. I have done this and it works just fine. I used wort from my second runnings so it wouldn't be too high gravity.

EricT said:

If you are an AG brewer, you could also make too much wort and refrigerate it until you want to make a yeast starter. I have done this and it works just fine. I used wort from my second runnings so it wouldn't be too high gravity.

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i'm only extract right now. This was my first batch, aside from a mr. beer kit, i was thinking of doing this actually though, but i ordered some DME so i should be ok once that gets here.
Just out of curiosity how do you store it? i'd assume you could throw it in the fridge but not for much longer than a week or so, what do you do if it'll be longer than that? can you freeze it and do it that way? I probably won't be doing this any time soon, basically if/when i jump into AG, but i'm just wondering.

smyth said:

Just out of curiosity how do you store it? i'd assume you could throw it in the fridge but not for much longer than a week or so, what do you do if it'll be longer than that? can you freeze it and do it that way?

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I've heard of people following a canning process. Sounds like a lot of work, but if you could do several at a time, it could be worthwhile.

smyth said:

i'm only extract right now. This was my first batch, aside from a mr. beer kit, i was thinking of doing this actually though, but i ordered some DME so i should be ok once that gets here.
Just out of curiosity how do you store it? i'd assume you could throw it in the fridge but not for much longer than a week or so, what do you do if it'll be longer than that? can you freeze it and do it that way? I probably won't be doing this any time soon, basically if/when i jump into AG, but i'm just wondering.

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I put mine in a sanitized 1/2 gallon growler with a regular growler lid. I still boil it for 10 minutes and cool just like a normal Yeast starter when I'm ready. I make a beer every two weeks so not sure how long you can store it for if its longer. Just a good way to kill two birds with one batch of beer