Bottle conditioned IPAs...

I've had trouble having them turn out how I want them to. In my last one, I added 2oz at 15min, 2oz at 5min, and 2oz dryhop (all cascade) and by the time the bottles were ready the hop flavor had already diminished. I'm a little discouraged by that and am starting to think that I shouldn't go for so much hop flavor until I can keg, which unfortunately won't be for a couple years..

Does anyone else have this problem/have any advice?

What yeast are you using? I've found that wlp029 kolsch yeast leaves much more hop aroma and flavor than other yeasts I've used.

d_striker said:

What yeast are you using? I've found that wlp029 kolsch yeast leaves much more hop aroma and flavor than other yeasts I've used.

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Mainly s05, some s04

bovineblitz said:

Mainly s05, some s04

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The "other yeasts" I was referring to was wlp001 which I believe is the same strain as us 05. I'm no pro but have brewed the same all grain beers using 001 and 029, and hop flavor and aroma was noticeably more present with 029.

Try 3 oz dry hop. To me this finally gets it up in the realm of a potent hop aroma. Then again, you are referring to flavor .... aren't flavoring hops supposed to be in the 20-40 minute range? Are you adding anything in this range?

I had that problem with a batch recently, but it was young (1 week bottle) so we'll see if more pops up later. It's also pretty malty and that can really sap the hops alot. Was it a pretty simple grain base?

Two ounces should be enough. What temp and for how long did you dry hop? I've had great results with ten days at 68F. Then in two weeks after kegging, the hop aroma is still really strong. How long are you letting them bottle condition before trying them?

dcp27 said:

I had that problem with a batch recently, but it was young (1 week bottle) so we'll see if more pops up later. It's also pretty malty and that can really sap the hops alot. Was it a pretty simple grain base?

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Very simple... 2 row with a touch of vienna and a half pound of crystal 40.

I had success with a huge imperial IPA that had a 3.75oz dry hop and 3.5oz flameout addition. It seems to me that I shouldn't have to use THAT much in a standard IPA (~6.8 ABV), but maybe I'm wrong.

I have my first IPA fermenting right now and I also bottle condition, so I'm in the same boat as you bovineblitz. I'm also using US-05 and I plan on dryhopping with 1.5 oz.

My previous brew was a basic pale ale. I noticed that the hop flavour and bitterness was noticeably reduced when the yeast finally settled out (2-3 weeks after bottling). I'm thinking that the yeast is actually pulling out the hoppiness, not just fading with time (which it also did, just not as quickly). So perhaps dryhopping after a bit of cold crashing would help with this?

I'm still a complete noob (3 brews total) so point me in the right direction if I'm on the wrong track.

bovineblitz said:

Very simple... 2 row with a touch of vienna and a half pound of crystal 40.

I had success with a huge imperial IPA that had a 3.75oz dry hop and 3.5oz flameout addition. It seems to me that I shouldn't have to use THAT much in a standard IPA (~6.8 ABV), but maybe I'm wrong.

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Well, I guess I'd stick with my recommendation to try 3 oz dry hop and see how you like it for a "normal" gravity. My red's rya PA was 1.068 I think and 3 oz was great. Can't hurt can it!?

Well I just had the same problem as you did Bovine. Brewed a high gravity IPA with huge aroma additions and dry hopping. As soon as carbonation levels were OK the HUGE amarillo nose was pretty much gone. So dissapointing. One solution I read was to immediately stick the batch in an extra fridge upon carb'ing. This will perhaps slow the dissapation of the hop aroma.

Do you DH in secondary? I read in Sam C's book that Vinnie C suggests that you DH in secondary because the yeast do indeed interfere with the hop aroma.

I think the only thing you can do to try and maintain hop characteristics over time is use the freshest hops you can and avoid oxygen when you can.

As others have said, always having hops in the beer (with kegging) also helps. Of course this doesn't help with bottling - I feel your pain. I usually try to do the above and ovedo FO and dry hop additions.

Loss of hop characteristics over time is why many people drink hoppy beer more quickly/age it less.

If you're looking for more hop presence You can try spreading out your final 4 oz. Try 1 oz at 15 min, 1 oz at 10 min, 5 min and flameout. I've seen my aroma and flavor go up by using this sort of schedule.

Of course most of what I said regarding kegging/FO/DH is predominately for aroma characteristics.

ayoungrad said:

Of course most of what I said regarding kegging/FO/DH is predominately for aroma characteristics.

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Still relevant since our sense of smell plays a major role in what we taste.

d_striker said:

What yeast are you using? I've found that wlp029 kolsch yeast leaves much more hop aroma and flavor than other yeasts I've used.

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Doesn't kolsch yeast not flocculate very well? Are you filtering, cold crashing or using gelatin to clarify your beer before dry hopping? I like that kolsch yeast ferments so cool, but have always been afraid to use it because it's powdery.

weremichael said:

Doesn't kolsch yeast not flocculate very well? Are you filtering, cold crashing or using gelatin to clarify your beer before dry hopping? I like that kolsch yeast ferments so cool, but have always been afraid to use it because it's powdery.

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I've brewed a few batches with WLP029. The first batch I left in primary for 3 weeks and then racked to secondary and put in the garage for a week and a half @ about 50 degrees F. I don't have kegging equipment so I bottle everything. The beer came out crystal clear.

I brewed another batch with a slightly different grain bill (left out the 10% white wheat malt and substituted honey malt) and just let it sit in primary for a month. Racked and bottle conditioned for a couple weeks. I couldn't tell the difference in clarity between this batch and the first batch.

I don't use any irish moss or gelatin. I love this yeast...

bovineblitz said:

I've had trouble having them turn out how I want them to. In my last one, I added 2oz at 15min, 2oz at 5min, and 2oz dryhop (all cascade) and by the time the bottles were ready the hop flavor had already diminished. I'm a little discouraged by that and am starting to think that I shouldn't go for so much hop flavor until I can keg, which unfortunately won't be for a couple years..

Does anyone else have this problem/have any advice?

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I did not notice any bittering hops in your OP. Did you do an 60 minute addition? If you did not there would be almost no bitterness and the malt can take over.

d_striker said:

I've brewed a few batches with WLP029. The first batch I left in primary for 3 weeks and then racked to secondary and put in the garage for a week and a half @ about 50 degrees F. I don't have kegging equipment so I bottle everything. The beer came out crystal clear.

I brewed another batch with a slightly different grain bill (left out the 10% white wheat malt and substituted honey malt) and just let it sit in primary for a month. Racked and bottle conditioned for a couple weeks. I couldn't tell the difference in clarity between this batch and the first batch.

I don't use any irish moss or gelatin. I love this yeast...

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Thanks for the reply. I am going to have to try to do a split batch with this yeast and pacman. A battle royal for my house yeast.

I haven't done a huge IPA yet (topped out at about 7%), but I've used S-05 for all my IPAs and never had issues with hop aroma or flavor, so I wonder if it's a yeast issue? Of course, I have done 60 min bittering in all except the most recent (still fermenting but smells amazing!), so that may be a difference.