Grant for rims system - Page 2 - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Grant for rims system

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-15-2011, 07:18 PM   #11
jaginger
Recipes 
 
Feb 2009
Hartford, CT
Posts: 487
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts


Shoot. I thought this thread was going to be about how to receive a gift of money from the government to buy a RIMS system. Guess i'll have to fund my own now.

phidelt1499 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 08:59 PM   #12
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


I started a grant thread last year and got some good info: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/cont...-grant-173595/

I'm actually implementing an idea that I got from that thread, which is a pump feedback loop instead of a grant. I haven't tested it yet and I'm not done documenting it, but here's a photo and a BOM: http://brewbot.org/content/rims-and-pump-assembly

This basically uses a diverter valve to feed a part of the pump's output back to its input. The reasoning is this valve can be trimmed to control the pressure or vacuum applied to the mash drain, and even in its lowest forward-flow setting (no drain from the mash), it still keeps liquid flowing over the heating element, preventing scorching.
__________________
The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:19 PM   #13
Catt22
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 70 Times on 63 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
I started a grant thread last year and got some good info: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/cont...-grant-173595/

I'm actually implementing an idea that I got from that thread, which is a pump feedback loop instead of a grant. I haven't tested it yet and I'm not done documenting it, but here's a photo and a BOM: http://brewbot.org/content/rims-and-pump-assembly

This basically uses a diverter valve to feed a part of the pump's output back to its input. The reasoning is this valve can be trimmed to control the pressure or vacuum applied to the mash drain, and even in its lowest forward-flow setting (no drain from the mash), it still keeps liquid flowing over the heating element, preventing scorching.
This design has been around awhile and typically it is used with a HERMS setup. Some have used a three way valve which provides a bypass of the hex coil for temperature control. IMO, diverting the wort whichever way isn't a substitute for a grant as it does nothing at all to eliminate excessive suction on the mash tun FB, which is the main objective IIRC.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:26 PM   #14
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
IMO, diverting the wort whichever way isn't a substitute for a grant as it does nothing at all to eliminate excessive suction on the mash tun FB, which is the main objective IIRC.
The feedback I'm describing is specifically designed to do avoid suction by controlling flow out of the mash tun drain.

The suction on the mash tun FB is related to the pressure in the mash tun drain. The lower the pressure in the mash tun drain, the higher the suction on the mash tun FB. I have a pressure monitor in line between the mash tun drain and the pump assembly (http://brewbot.org/content/mash-recy...t-and-transfer

The pressure in the mash tun drain is related to the flow of wort out of the mash tun drain. The flow of wort out of the mash tun drain is the same as the flow through the pump minus the flow in the feedback loop. I will monitor the pressure in the drain line and increase or decrease the flow in the feedback loop to keep the pressure out of the range of a stuck mash.
__________________
The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:55 PM   #15
Catt22
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 70 Times on 63 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
The feedback I'm describing is specifically designed to do avoid suction by controlling flow out of the mash tun drain.

The suction on the mash tun FB is related to the pressure in the mash tun drain. The lower the pressure in the mash tun drain, the higher the suction on the mash tun FB. I have a pressure monitor in line between the mash tun drain and the pump assembly (http://brewbot.org/content/mash-recy...t-and-transfer

The pressure in the mash tun drain is related to the flow of wort out of the mash tun drain. The flow of wort out of the mash tun drain is the same as the flow through the pump minus the flow in the feedback loop. I will monitor the pressure in the drain line and increase or decrease the flow in the feedback loop to keep the pressure out of the range of a stuck mash.
I do much the same thing with a $20 vacuum gauge. Yours is much, much higher on the bling scale though. That cannot be denied. Looks good!

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:59 PM   #16
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
I do much the same thing with a $20 vacuum gauge.
I thought that you were controlling flow by constricting the outlet of the pump?
__________________
The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 10:01 PM   #17
Catt22
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 70 Times on 63 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by wuertele View Post
I thought that you were controlling flow by constricting the outlet of the pump?
Yep, that's it. No diversion necessary on my system.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 10:04 PM   #18
JonW
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
JonW's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2009
Huntington Beach ☼
Posts: 2,022
Liked 248 Times on 155 Posts


Guys, I'm still not seeing the need for this stuff.

If you're restricting the output of your pump to get the runnoff rate you want, you're not creating any real suction or vacuum on your mash tun drain. I set a valve to get the proper flow into my brew kettle and then I set the other valve to get a matching rate of HLT water into the MLT. These are both slow rates - about 45 mins for a 10-12G batch. There's no serious suction going on here to compact the grain bed.
__________________
Surf City Brewing (TM)

My Single Tier, 3 Pump, BCS-462, Brutus Build:..... [LINK]
My customized BCS-462 controller web interface:.. [LINK]
My 8 tap, 11 keg, upright Keezer build:.................... [LINK]

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 10:09 PM   #19
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt22 View Post
Yep, that's it. No diversion necessary on my system.
Yah, it's not like diversion is necessary on my system either. I realize that I can prevent scorching by turning off my RIMS element, and I could do it automatically with a cheap flow switch, but I like the elegance of the feedback loop. I also imagine that I get more uniform heating from my element because the wort flow across the element is always maximized. I think this will also limit the max temperature reached by the element, extending its life and making it easier to clean.
__________________
The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 10:15 PM   #20
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonW View Post
Guys, I'm still not seeing the need for this stuff.

If you're restricting the output of your pump to get the runnoff rate you want, you're not creating any real suction or vacuum on your mash tun drain. I set a valve to get the proper flow into my brew kettle and then I set the other valve to get a matching rate of HLT water into the MLT. These are both slow rates - about 45 mins for a 10-12G batch. There's no serious suction going on here to compact the grain bed.
That's just it, the rate is slow. I want to maximize the rate I can drain from the MLT without sticking it. That shortens my brew day and also increases the rate my RIMS can pump heat into the MLT for temperature steps.
__________________
The all-grain home brewery registry: http://brewbot.org/breweries

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RIMS System plans blackheart Equipment/Sanitation 45 07-26-2014 11:13 PM
Grant users? Gabrew Equipment/Sanitation 12 01-25-2012 03:51 PM
Controlling RIMS with a grant wuertele Equipment/Sanitation 12 04-17-2010 10:21 PM
Check out my new RIMS system! polecreek Equipment/Sanitation 14 01-28-2009 10:35 PM
Single Tier - Grant or No Grant? FlyGuy Equipment/Sanitation 25 01-24-2009 03:43 PM


Forum Jump