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Old 02-24-2007, 03:40 PM   #1
the_bird
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Default 07.07.07 - Version II

Alright, we're hitting the reset button on 777, taking another crack at this. A pretty sizable group of us has put our heads together, talked this over in a lot of detail, looked at the last discussions, took some internal polls, and came up with a new starting point.

But, the real problem with the last attempt seemed to be that no one knew really in what direction we were going. So, I'm coming down the mountain with a couple tablets in my hands, saying that the HBT 777 brew will be:

A big, rye-based IPA, 1070 OG, 70 IBUs.

The idea here is that we have LOTS of IPA fans, and there are lots of people here who are very intrigued with the use of rye. It's big and celebratory. There also aren't really a lot of rye-based recipes out there now, which makes this brew inherently interesting.

Now, we need to figure out how to get there. There's no need, IMHO, to shoehorn seven grains or seven hops or seven hop additions into the recipe, let's just - collectively - develop the best possible recipe. No more polls - let's just start talking this through. Anyone with experience working with rye, chime in and let us know what other grain combos work well with it.

It's doubtful that there will be an extract version of this recipe, unless someone makes a rye extract that I'm unaware of. But, we'll want to convert this to partial mash before all is said and done, as well.

So, let's get to work...


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Old 02-24-2007, 03:49 PM   #2
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Okay, here are the things I would like to see in this brew:
  • Grains: Munich, Rye, Crystal 10
  • Hops: Summit, Columbus, Amarillo
  • Yeast: White Labs WLP001 California Ale

I think those grains are pretty obvious choices for an IPA, but I don't know if anything else would be necessary.

The IIPA I just made used Summit and Amarillo (and a couple others), and I think they work well together.

Someone had suggested using WLP007 Dry English Ale, but it's just a gimmick, and I don't think that it's a good fit. WLP001 is designed for hoppy beers, and should be the best fit.

Of course, this is all just ideas I'm tossing out there.


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Old 02-24-2007, 03:53 PM   #3
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Bird, I'm agreeing 100%. This style might not have been what I would have chosen myself but we needed some focus to get this done. on the plus side I've neer used rye before and I've never done a partial mash, so It should be a good way to learn something new. I also agree that we don't need to focus on getting 7 grains and or 7 hops in the recipe. that would be neat from a novelty standpoint but probably not as good for the recipe as a whole
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Old 02-24-2007, 04:32 PM   #4
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A big rye is perfect for me. I completely love rye beers. I have a rye stout in the secondary right now, and cherry chocolate rye slated for my next brew.

So for my opinion and experience:

One grain that works perfect (when added in the correct amount) is black patent. Black patent adds just the right bitterness, and edge to rye malt, and enhances the spicy flavor of rye. The roasted charcoal flavor mixed with the rye is awesome in my opinion. It also is one of the darkest malts out there, and can be used for color adjustment as well. But, it needs to be used sparingly, as too much will overpower the entire grain bill and ruin your taste. Usually in a 15 pound grain bill, a sparing 1% or little under 1/8 lb is all that is needed. And black roast will not give the same flavor, so its not a good substitute. To me, these two grains work hand in hand.

As for the rye amounts, people need to agree on the agressiveness of the ryes flavor they really want. In my observations in a 15 pound bill:

Slight Rye: 1 pound flaked / 1 - 2 pound malted
Moderate Rye: 1 - 1 1/2 pound flaked / 2 - 2 1/2 pounds malted
Rich Rye: 2 - 3 pound flaked / 3 - 4 pounds malted

Hops that I believe help accentuate rye are Columbus, Amarillo, Williamette, Centenial and German Brewers Gold.

And for yeast...

WYeasts: London Ale, British Ale, and the best (IMO) American Ale II.
White Labs: English Ale, Dry English Ale, Pacific Ale and California Ale V.

Those are my observations and opinions.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Dry English Ale (yeast)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this WLP007?

I think we should go with a moderate rye flavor... to allow it to stand out as a "rye beer" but not so much as to detract from everything else going on in the brew. 2-3 lbs of rye malt in a 1.070 beer sound about right.

Rye malt can convert itself as well, for the partial mash group.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasgeorge
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this WLP007?
It sure is.

WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast

Clean, highly flocculent, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80% attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:17 PM   #7
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Just wanted to add a second vote to just sticking with rye malt, or at least convert the AG recipe to use rye malt, since i dont know for sure because I have no experience in rye either (but am doing research right now) but I dont think flaked rye would work for a PM.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:25 PM   #8
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Yeah, that's what I have in mind, rye malt. I want this recipe to be open to as many members of the community as possible, and for the partial mash option to be easy enough for most extract brewers to be able to handle easily, without having to buy/build new gear.
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:34 PM   #9
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I'm open to anything except using an ingredient simply because of its name. What does the WLP041 bring to the table?
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beer4breakfast
Sounds good. How about considering WLP041 for the yeast?
That was one of my choices I listed as well. I made a kick a$$ Pacific NW IPA using it and thought it was a nice strain. Less attenuation than the WLP051 though, and less tolerant to higher alcohol.


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