Saison Nelson Sauvin Dry Hopped Saison

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Homebrewtastic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
30
Location
San Antonio
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Wyeast 3711
Yeast Starter
750ml
Batch Size (Gallons)
6
Original Gravity
1.050
Final Gravity
1.008
Boiling Time (Minutes)
90
IBU
15
Color
7 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
14
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
I don\'t secondary
Additional Fermentation
what?
Tasting Notes
Tastes like awesome.
Malts and Fermentables

5lbs. Belgian Pils
3lbs. American 2-Row
2lbs. White Wheat Malt
1lb. Table Sugar
.25lbs Special B Malt 180L

Hops

1 oz. Willamette Hops 5.5%AA 20 minutes
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin Hops 12.4% AA 10 minutes
0.5 oz. Nelson Sauvin Hops 12.4% AA 5 minutes
1 oz. Nelson Sauvin Hops 12.4%AA Dry Hop - 7 days

photo.jpg


Appearance - Golden orangish in color with pale straw highlights. The head poured rocky and chunky, just like you would expect in a saison. It's nice and cloudy, which is how I prefer my saisons. I don't really like them to be crystal clear. Leaves some bad ass lacing.

Nose - Even though the hops are dominant, the first thing I get is a candy sweetness (from the pilsner malt). That really helps to accent the hop profile. Over ripe pineapple followed by mangos and passion fruit. Behind that is a bit of spice, lemon peel then orange, finished with a slight breadiness (from the two - row).

Mouthfeel - I carbed this up to a shade over 3 volumes (3.2 actually) so it's very spritzy and full. The bubbles are very fine which just adds to the sprity mouthfeel. It has a nice bit of silkiness too, I find that you get this a lot with that Wyeast 3711 French Saison.

Taste - At first you get that impression of candy sweetness. In the middle there's a lot of the same that you get in the nose, but in different order. The spiciness is first followed by lemon and orange. The passion fruit comes next followed by the hop bitterness which is just enough to hold the beer up and keep it in balance. Right at the back you get the pineapple and mango then that candy sweetness impression that fades into the long and dry finish.
 
This looks really good! Now, if I could just find some nelson sauvin hops. Any suggestions? I've looked around the interwebs, and cannot find any for sale. AHS had them in stock for awhile, but they are gone.
 
It's a damn good beer. I just picked up another 2oz. of the hops last night from my LHBS so I can get another batch of this going ASAP.
 
Somehow I managed to leave out the mash schedule.

I do a single infusion mash at 146 with a 1.5qt/lb. ratio. I do a 10 minute mash out at 168, followed by a double batch sparge.
 
looks awesome, I was gonna ask about the mash, then there it was.
I only do single infusion mash, I never mash out, I single batch sparge and I go 1.33 qts/lb.

I am dying to make my first saison. wlp565.
 
You don't have to do the mash out, but I just have a habit of doing so. I get better efficiency with a thinner mash and a double batch sparge. Hence the 1.5qt/lb.

The 565 is a good strain but there's a notorious problem with it, a saison is fermented warm, and I find that the 565 can give some serious bubblegum flavors that really aren't to style and can kind of get in the way of everything else going on.

The Wyeast 3711 is really fantastic.
 
You won't really get any "funk" out of a regular saison strain. Rather you'll get fruitiness and spice. If you want funk you need to add some funk, like some brettanomyces. If you're looking for that barnyardy, wet horseblanket and hay flavor add some Brett L. towards the end of fermentation.
 
Looks pretty tasty. I love the Nelson Sauvin, and I've been throwing a little bit into a bunch of different styles. Widmer even does an IIPA with them.

I have to ask, though... why no bittering hop? Is it just because the NS are so high even added late?
 
I don't really need the bittering hop addition. Saisons in general are lower on the scale of IBUs, and the NS hops are so high in AA% just that bit at the end combined with Willamette addition are enough to hit the numbers I want.
 
You could add some more hops to this if you cared to. This beer is a shade low on the IBUs (I'm missing by about 5) to be true to BJCP style (20 IBUs) but I really just don't care all that much.

As dry as a saison is you don't really need much bitterness to keep it in balance. Also when I first brewed this I had considered doing some souring. So leaving the IBUs a little low was intentional in that regard too because sour and bitter just don't mesh all that well.
 
Do the "spicy/peppery" notes from Wyeast 3711 come through or does the dry hopping cover that up? I'm planning a belgian ipa using 3711 with 2 oz Willamette dry hopped.
 
houndsbreath said:
Do the "spicy/peppery" notes from Wyeast 3711 come through or does the dry hopping cover that up? I'm planning a belgian ipa using 3711 with 2 oz Willamette dry hopped.

Yes it comes through. However I found that the dry hopping with the NS hops did overwhelm it. However now that I've had this beer on hand a few months the hop character has subsided and it's come into a better balance.

Two things though with your IPA. The 3711 is super attenuative, so you may find it dries your beer out more than you're expecting. Also the willamette flavor isn't nearly as assertive as the NS hops, so I wouldn't worry too much about it covering up yeast flavors.
 
You know, if you really want a "Belgian" IPA go with the WLP550. It will have more of the character for which you are looking.
 
Will someone convert this into an extract w/ steeped specialty grains(if needed) for me. This sounds really good, but It be awile before I can buy the equipment I need for all-grain. Thanks in-advance.
 
I could also do a partial mass, if someone would convert it. It will be a few months before I could brew it though, since I have 3 others in front of it.

Thanks
 
Just ordered the ingredients for this. Sounds like right up my alley as far as how I like my saisons.

What temp did you ferment at?
 
southside2234 said:
Just ordered the ingredients for this. Sounds like right up my alley as far as how I like my saisons.

What temp did you ferment at?

I don't have my notes handy but IIRC I followed my usual fermentation schedule for saisons. Under-pitch (no starter) and pitch warm (75). Hold for three days then free rise as warm as you can get it for about a week. Then cool down and dry hop.

Also where are you getting Nelson Sauvin hops? I was planning on rebrewing this but can't find any.
 
I bought them from homebrew4less. Was about $10 after USPS priority shipping for 2 oz. But the only place I could find them.
 
southside2234 said:
I bought them from homebrew4less. Was about $10 after USPS priority shipping for 2 oz. But the only place I could find them.

Awesome thank you! I loved this beer so much I really don't mind paying that much for the hops.

Anybody else brew this yet? Like it? Hate it?
 
Brewed on Saturday 2/11/12.

Scaled recipe back to 5.5 gal, ended up with 5.25 at an OG of 1.053.

Fermentation started within 12 hours, going strong right now in the mid 70s. Going to hold it for another day or two then ramp it up with my fermwrap belt.
 
southside2234 said:
how long did you have to let this sit in the bottles until it tasted right?

I would say it was at its best at about the two month mark. The hop character was competing too much with the yeast character when it was fresh. In between 2-4 months in the bottle is when I felt it had the best balance. After 4 months the hop character starts getting a bit dull.
 
I think I'm going to brew this as my first saison but I have a few questions.

You mentioned the dry hops competing with the yeast. What do you think about moving the dry hops to flameout or using less? Or do you feel its best the way it is?

I've been saving/culturing yeast from the boulevard farmhouse tank 7 ale bottles. I would like to use them for this, but am not sure what I got, any opinions one way or the other?

Also I just made an order for the Nelson Sauvin hops at homebrew4less. I got no indication that they were sold out and paid $2.20/oz. Anyone know if I'm actually going to get these? Or if they're sold out but still taking orders.
 
I believe they told me in an email they were sold out after I ordered. I posted on the last page where I got mine. Some organic store.

As far as yeast goes, I think the tank 7 is excellent so it would probably fine. Fermentation temp is more important to flavor than which saison yeast you use. I knocked back the dry hops to .75 oz. mine has been in the bottle for 2 weeks. I plan on trying it in another week or so and will give an update in case you aren't brewing in the next few days.

It smelled pretty hoppy at bottling though. Westbrook has a Farmhouse IPA that they dry hop that tastes almost like you are eating hops when it is fresh. This beer kinda smelled similar to be honest.
 
southside2234 said:
I believe they told me in an email they were sold out after I ordered. I posted on the last page where I got mine. Some organic store.

As far as yeast goes, I think the tank 7 is excellent so it would probably fine. Fermentation temp is more important to flavor than which saison yeast you use. I knocked back the dry hops to .75 oz. mine has been in the bottle for 2 weeks. I plan on trying it in another week or so and will give an update in case you aren't brewing in the next few days.

It smelled pretty hoppy at bottling though. Westbrook has a Farmhouse IPA that they dry hop that tastes almost like you are eating hops when it is fresh. This beer kinda smelled similar to be honest.

I hope it turns out well for you. Let me know how you like it.
 
Wow, what a fantastic beer. I started drinking it last weekend at ~3 weeks in the bottle and it was on point. Just the perfect amount of aroma and flavor from the dry hopping (I think dropping down to .75 oz really helped) on the back end combined with the upfront spice from the yeast. Just a very, very well rounded beer. I have to say I am a saison fanatic and this is one of the best I've ever had. It's right behind Fantome for me, I'm serious.

I think I will eventually try bottling this with some Brett a la Saison de Lente from The Bruery. Would contribute a unique character and add to the complexity already present.

Well done.
 
southside2234 said:
Wow, what a fantastic beer. I started drinking it last weekend at ~3 weeks in the bottle and it was on point. Just the perfect amount of aroma and flavor from the dry hopping (I think dropping down to .75 oz really helped) on the back end combined with the upfront spice from the yeast. Just a very, very well rounded beer. I have to say I am a saison fanatic and this is one of the best I've ever had. It's right behind Fantome for me, I'm serious.

I think I will eventually try bottling this with some Brett a la Saison de Lente from The Bruery. Would contribute a unique character and add to the complexity already present.

Well done.

Glad you like it!!! I'm planning a version of this with the whitelabs American farmhouse blend, which also has some Brett in it. IIRC it uses Brett C which makes some pineapple flavors that should blend well with the hops.
 
hey, just occurred to me in the middle of my brew day, that if there are no 60 minute additions of hops, does one really need to boil a full hour on this recipe? I'm going to boil a full hour since I already calculated out my water amounts before thinking about this. Maybe, the full hour is needed to boil off any DMS precursors due to the pilsner malt? Not sure.
 
frailn said:
hey, just occurred to me in the middle of my brew day, that if there are no 60 minute additions of hops, does one really need to boil a full hour on this recipe? I'm going to boil a full hour since I already calculated out my water amounts before thinking about this. Maybe, the full hour is needed to boil off any DMS precursors due to the pilsner malt? Not sure.

Bingo! DMS is exactly why. It may take a full 90 minutes depending on how vigorously your boils are.
 
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